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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:12 am 
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Smoothedge69 wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
getting people to pay forever is a great business model.

-James

No. It's more like extortion.


I said it was a good business model FOR THE MUSIC COMPANIES like Sony and Emi.

However, I still agree that it is extortion, but it isn't PEP's fault and there isn't anything anyone can do about it, the people who are controlling everything *Sony, EMI etc* have forced this upon the music industry.

It's the new reality of music just like almost all Microsoft software is lease now, and so is most TV and movie.

Pay forever is here to stay, whether or not we like it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:59 am 
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jclaydon wrote:
Pay forever is here to stay, whether or not we like it.

Not necessarily! You could just go to manus like Karaoke-Version, SBI, and Karaoke.net and just buy single downloaded songs that you can use without buying songs you don't need or want. Forcing a KJ to purchase songs like on a CD is old school and I for one will not buy songs this way! Like many of you, I am committed to buying single songs on the fly when my singers request one. No longer will I buy strictly to have a song that no one sings it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:41 pm 
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bazinga wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
Pay forever is here to stay, whether or not we like it.

Not necessarily! You could just go to manus like Karaoke-Version, SBI, and Karaoke.net and just buy single downloaded songs that you can use without buying songs you don't need or want. Forcing a KJ to purchase songs like on a CD is old school and I for one will not buy songs this way! Like many of you, I am committed to buying single songs on the fly when my singers request one. No longer will I buy strictly to have a song that no one sings it.


I prefer downloads myself. What i'm saying, is that in the FUTURE we may not have a choice if the music publishers start pushing for 'pay forever' models in order to obtain licensing. If that happens, sites like karaokeversion and knet will either be forced to change, or fold.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:10 pm 
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jclaydon wrote:
bazinga wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
Pay forever is here to stay, whether or not we like it.

Not necessarily! You could just go to manus like Karaoke-Version, SBI, and Karaoke.net and just buy single downloaded songs that you can use without buying songs you don't need or want. Forcing a KJ to purchase songs like on a CD is old school and I for one will not buy songs this way! Like many of you, I am committed to buying single songs on the fly when my singers request one. No longer will I buy strictly to have a song that no one sings it.


I prefer downloads myself. What i'm saying, is that in the FUTURE we may not have a choice if the music publishers start pushing for 'pay forever' models in order to obtain licensing. If that happens, sites like karaokeversion and knet will either be forced to change, or fold.

It looks like PEP is the "only" company forcing their customers to continually pay for something they already bought and paid for. With the manus that produce single song downloads, PEP will never be able to force the other companies to fold. Unless PEP comes out with single song downloads that you won't need to pay annual fees they won't be a major player in the karaoke market anymore. KJs like you and me will stick to patronizing the manus that sells downloads without the idiotic annual fees. We will all gladly pay for songs we and our singers want and avoid greedy companies like PEP.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:55 pm 
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bazinga wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
bazinga wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
Pay forever is here to stay, whether or not we like it.

Not necessarily! You could just go to manus like Karaoke-Version, SBI, and Karaoke.net and just buy single downloaded songs that you can use without buying songs you don't need or want. Forcing a KJ to purchase songs like on a CD is old school and I for one will not buy songs this way! Like many of you, I am committed to buying single songs on the fly when my singers request one. No longer will I buy strictly to have a song that no one sings it.


I prefer downloads myself. What i'm saying, is that in the FUTURE we may not have a choice if the music publishers start pushing for 'pay forever' models in order to obtain licensing. If that happens, sites like karaokeversion and knet will either be forced to change, or fold.

It looks like PEP is the "only" company forcing their customers to continually pay for something they already bought and paid for. With the manus that produce single song downloads, PEP will never be able to force the other companies to fold. Unless PEP comes out with single song downloads that you won't need to pay annual fees they won't be a major player in the karaoke market anymore. KJs like you and me will stick to patronizing the manus that sells downloads without the idiotic annual fees. We will all gladly pay for songs we and our singers want and avoid greedy companies like PEP.


And again I am not talking about PEP anymore, I'm talking about Sony and EMI etc forcing everyone to pay for streaming licenses.. they are the people that control the music, and if they want streaming only, it may take them twenty years, but they will get it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Personally, I would never opt for streaming. You don't own the songs and if the internet connection goes down there goes the show. I would rather pay for a song knowing that years down the line I will still own it. I would only require the internet if one of my singers requested a song I don't have and I can buy it on the fly. This is just my opinion and choice, others may feel differently.


Last edited by bazinga on Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:28 pm 
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johnreynolds wrote:
DannyG2006 wrote:
Until they fix it so I don't have to pay for songs that I don't need or want. I am out. I decided years ago that my singers drive what I buy and I refuse to pay for any more filler music just to get the one song that my singers asked for. I will pay attention to what they are offering and if one of my singers request it a d it's only available from them, I will just request for it to be made by the ones that allow me to pick and choose what I need and not have to pay for the songs that I may never play.


I,I,I...I,I.I.....I,I,I, I T-E-N Friggin "I"s !!!!!! :no: :no: :no:

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME..ALL about ME, I, MY..... :puke:

It's 2019 and you're STILL as self-centered as EVER!!! :argue: :banghead: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

So freaking what. If I don't care about my needs why should anyone else?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:40 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
So freaking what. If I don't care about my needs why should anyone else?

I absolutely agree with you. You're talking about what's best for you... nothing else matters.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:32 am 
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johnreynolds wrote:
I,I,I...I,I.I.....I,I,I, I T-E-N Friggin "I"s !!!!!! :no: :no: :no:

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME..ALL about ME, I, MY..... :puke:

It's 2019 and you're STILL as self-centered as EVER!!! :argue: :banghead: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:


Are you kidding me, with this?? Of COURSE it's I I I II Me Me Me. Are YOU taking care of Danny's business?? Are YOU deciding what is best for him and his singers???? Sorry, but where this is all concerned, I am with Danny. It is about ME and what is good for MY people!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:32 am 
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Warrenkel16 wrote:
Elementary Penguin, I have the song A Salty Dog on cdg,
it was put out by a Dutch company, If I remember correctly.
it was on Rock Tunes RT54, Some of their discs seemed to
be the same as Legends, they also had cartoon characters
of rock stars on the discs..
That's a bit of history I find fascinating. I never saw that RT disc with Procol Harum on it, but I did buy RT's two volumes of Led Zep off ebay a few years ago.

The RT Led Zep discs appear to have been made by (or pirated from?) SBI. The SBI logo appears during the instrumental breaks on many of the tracks, but not at the beginning or end of songs. The versions are good enough to have been SBI made as well. SBI did produce Led Zep tracks many a year ago, but hasn't been allowed to sell them in ages, so perhaps Rock Tunes was just a work around scheme on the part of SBI.

As to Legends tracks, I've found many of them showed up re-branded on Sunfly discs after they had to stop selling Legends to the US.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:02 am 
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Actually having heard Danny's full story in private, I would have to concede that the PEP music is NOT for him or his business. And why shouldn't he look out for his business interests, no one else is going to

However I would request that he stop making generalized, blanket statements like "Certified Disk users aren't eligible" and "the only way to get new music is with a compuhost subscription " when he knows better.

if things keep going as they are, I will be forced to give up on the new music as well. The difference is I CHOOSE to believe in the best outcome, and get in now to help that hope become reality.


-James


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:51 am 
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jclaydon wrote:
I prefer downloads myself. What i'm saying, is that in the FUTURE we may not have a choice if the music publishers start pushing for 'pay forever' models in order to obtain licensing. If that happens, sites like karaokeversion and knet will either be forced to change, or fold.
If that is the future, i'll most likely bow out of the business altogether. Hard enough to make money and still buy the music that is wanted, not going to start subscribing to get new music. But in reality - except for 'new' music, I could probably run another 5-10 years without ever buying another track. I know some popular clubs that don't have anything new since 2003 (when I sold them an old system I had). They have their singers that sing the same things and are fine with that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:48 pm 
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jclaydon wrote:
Actually having heard Danny's full story in private, I would have to concede that the PEP music is NOT for him or his business. And why shouldn't he look out for his business interests, no one else is going to

However I would request that he stop making generalized, blanket statements like "Certified Disk users aren't eligible" and "the only way to get new music is with a compuhost subscription " when he knows better.

if things keep going as they are, I will be forced to give up on the new music as well. The difference is I CHOOSE to believe in the best outcome, and get in now to help that hope become reality.


-James

Until it was stated on a group in Facebook that a license agreement had been created for the certified hosts I had absolutely no knowledge of it. That information was given however with a false claim that he had already told me that that agreement was already in existence before I made my statements. As far as I am personally concerned at the time of my statements that I had all of the facts at the time of my statements.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:57 am 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
Actually having heard Danny's full story in private, I would have to concede that the PEP music is NOT for him or his business. And why shouldn't he look out for his business interests, no one else is going to

However I would request that he stop making generalized, blanket statements like "Certified Disk users aren't eligible" and "the only way to get new music is with a compuhost subscription " when he knows better.

if things keep going as they are, I will be forced to give up on the new music as well. The difference is I CHOOSE to believe in the best outcome, and get in now to help that hope become reality.


-James

Until it was stated on a group in Facebook that a license agreement had been created for the certified hosts I had absolutely no knowledge of it. That information was given however with a false claim that he had already told me that that agreement was already in existence before I made my statements. As far as I am personally concerned at the time of my statements that I had all of the facts at the time of my statements.


I stand corrected, I apologize for not knowing all the facts. Mea Culpa


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
jclaydon wrote:
I prefer downloads myself. What i'm saying, is that in the FUTURE we may not have a choice if the music publishers start pushing for 'pay forever' models in order to obtain licensing. If that happens, sites like karaokeversion and knet will either be forced to change, or fold.
If that is the future, i'll most likely bow out of the business altogether. Hard enough to make money and still buy the music that is wanted, not going to start subscribing to get new music. But in reality - except for 'new' music, I could probably run another 5-10 years without ever buying another track. I know some popular clubs that don't have anything new since 2003 (when I sold them an old system I had). They have their singers that sing the same things and are fine with that.


If it comes to that, I'll buy the backing tracks and use Karaoke Builder Studio for graphics. There will still be a market for backing tracks to single instrument artists. I'll just order all the instrumentation and backing vocals. And I'll ask for the requester of the new track to pay at least half. It might take a week for it to be completed by me, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:52 pm 
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If I were in charge of BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, RIAA I'd force a jukebox of all songs Karaoke where if anyone wanted to sing a song they had to pay for it. (I'm in the money!!!) I'm sure they command enough power to do that at some point. I'd certainly mull over that idea.

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I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:23 pm 
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DannyG2006 wrote:
Maybe for you but I have brand snobs where I am and having access to the subscription dies work for me. I had to give up a substantial amount of songs due to a major flaw in their auto pay system for the original GEM Series discs. It was during the time that I was dealing with having to replace equipment due to constant thefts by a couple of roommates. I missed a few payments and the auto pay system didn't account for that. And basically both pep and I didn't figure it out until just recently. I didn't have the money to finish paying at the rate that I was originally paying so I removed the songs off of my hard drives and sent the discs back with the knowledge that with Compuhost, I could regain the songs under the subscription. After one month I started thinking that the Hoster Subscription might be a better deal but now that OpenKJ now has a standalone song shop program that works with any software, I have decided to go back to Compuhost. As long as the color code is set to work in real time of the song playing, I guess that I can live with it. As to answering the question of when am I up, I will just have to use the number of singers instead of time.


Brand snobs eventually get used to other versions. I know this from experience. If they like you, and you explain the situation, they will make the conversion with you. My brand snobs don't even mention Sound Choice anymore. It's a scary move, but once made, it's the best feeling in the world. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:03 am 
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dvdgdry wrote:
If I were in charge of BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, RIAA I'd force a jukebox of all songs Karaoke where if anyone wanted to sing a song they had to pay for it. (I'm in the money!!!) I'm sure they command enough power to do that at some point. I'd certainly mull over that idea.


I believe that solution would kill most KJ jobs.
And by the way, the venues are required to pay those fees now.
Not sure how a jukebox would solve anything.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:33 pm 
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Brand snobs are becoming fewer and fewer. Majority today just want to sing and if the version is decent, they could care less who produced it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:51 pm 
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If the karaoke jukebox were a serious threat I think we'd already be feeling it, because the TouchTunes karaoke feature has been available on their jukeboxes a few years now.

The bar I host at on Sundays added a jukebox karaoke night on Wednesdays at least 2 years ago. It draws maybe 6 people, 10 on a good night! My regulars that have stopped in on Wednesdays to try it hate it. The guy who hosts/MC's the show hates it, he just sorta got brow beat into taking the job while he was out of work, and now can't worm his way out of it. (He gets $50 bucks and free drinks for the night. Hell, the bar doesn't give me free drinks! LOL!)

It's not even a terrible library, but the singers just hate that kind of show format. And there's no rotation control, even with a host. If someone drops in $3 and picks 3 songs, they sing 3 in a row when their turn comes up. Then customers scream at the host. The host can't change that, except to reset the system to clear the whole rotation, and then the owner has to pay to put those song turns back in. Then the owner screams at the host.

The bar also has to know something about a/v technicalities. With the video going to multiple TV's at different resolutions (via HDMI) the lyrics keep getting out of synch with the music.

Meanwhile my Sunday shows at the same bar keep going strong.

At least from my experience, at this point jukebox karaoke poses about as much of a threat to real KJ's as a goldfish poses to a barracuda.


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