Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: horrible investigator

holy crap, he is not even being discrete taking pictures of only SC screens on his phone.
he actually stood in front of me, after taking pics of the lyrics, waiting with phone pointed at the screen waiting for the logo. i even got to see him scrolling through a good dozen pictures of nothing but SC lyric and logo screens.

this is comical how bad it is.

We did not have any investigators active in your area last night.

JimHarrington wrote:

We did not have any investigators active in your area last night.

Did Paradigm Karaoke state that this occurred last night? So, WHEN did you have an investigator active in his area?

He stated it happened last night on a FB post.

I understood the use of the present tense in his post to imply that it was occurring at that moment.

(3) We have no need at all to investigate Paradigm, as his operation is licensed.

cueball wrote:

JimHarrington wrote:

We did not have any investigators active in your area last night.

Did Paradigm Karaoke state that this occurred last night? So, WHEN did you have an investigator active in his area?

I understood the use of the present tense in his post to imply that it was occurring at that moment.

I am not 100% certain without looking (and I'm not at my office) when we last had an investigator active in his area, but I know that could not possibly be one of ours, for the following reasons:

(1) I have supervisory responsibility over investigations in that area, and I have not ordered any investigations there recently.
(2) Our investigators are trained to be discreet in their movements, and they have equipment that would be it completely unnecessary for them to be so obvious in taking photographs.
(3) We have no need at all to investigate Paradigm, as his operation is licensed.
(4) We do "secret shop" our licensees periodically just to make sure they are following the terms of the license, but that would not involve behavior like this. (The whole point of that exercise is to make an undetected visit.) And we aren't doing that in Arizona right now anyway.
(5) It is not unusual to hear of vigilante investigators who think they are doing us a favor by "gathering evidence." Of course, we can't use any of that as evidence. If you want to make us aware of someone you think is infringing, we have reporting tools on our websites. Name, place, and time are sufficient.

Most likely, this was a competitor who was trying to spook him for some reason.

So you aren't investigating any registered users, unless of course you are investigating them (See #4 in Harrington's quote).

I would also think that if PEP has investigators in the area, they certainly aren't going to tell the likes of us. If what they are doing is public knowledge, thst might disrupt their investigations.

While I don't believe Paradigm is doing anything illegal at all, might I suggest that he looks into lawyers that deal with PEP type issues, just in case. Not any retainers or anything of that sort, but at least know the copyright lawyers in your area.

When I use the term "investigating," I am referring to the gathering of information for use in determining whether or not to sue an unlicensed operator or venue for infringement. We do not "investigate" licensed operators.

We do occasionally send representatives out to licensee shows. The purpose of these visits is usually just routine monitoring for compliance with the terms of the license, but sometimes we are responding to a complaint or a tip. We may or may not disclose these visits to the licensee, depending on our purposes. However, we DO NOT "investigate" licensees in the manner that we investigate unlicensed operators and venues.

We don't usually disclose the presence of our investigative teams in any given area, at least not until after they have completed their work. Generally speaking, if pirates get word that we are potentially investigating them, they will decline to play SC for a few days or a couple of weeks until they think the coast is clear.

Paradigm has nothing to worry about from us. He knows that. There is therefore no reason why he would need to "know the copyright lawyers in his area"--but, lest you get the wrong idea, I am not discouraging him from doing so. It's always a good idea to get information and advice from a experienced attorney who knows the issues and operates with your best interests in mind.

Author:	Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:	horrible investigator
holy crap, he is not even being discrete taking pictures of only SC screens on his phone. he actually stood in front of me, after taking pics of the lyrics, waiting with phone pointed at the screen waiting for the logo. i even got to see him scrolling through a good dozen pictures of nothing but SC lyric and logo screens. this is comical how bad it is.

Author:	Toastedmuffin [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
Paradigm Karaoke wrote: holy crap, he is not even being discrete taking pictures of only SC screens on his phone. he actually stood in front of me, after taking pics of the lyrics, waiting with phone pointed at the screen waiting for the logo. i even got to see him scrolling through a good dozen pictures of nothing but SC lyric and logo screens. this is comical how bad it is. yeah well, these are the "pros" were talking about here. Haven't you reported a bunch of pirates? And of course, they came to look into you right? Wondering if your gonna need a lawyer, or if you've done the registry thing.

Author:	Paradigm Karaoke [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
i was one of the first to be audited voluntarily. i have nothing to hide, but it's just funny.

Author:	Toastedmuffin [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
So why the hell are they there? Don't they work off a list or something? That makes zero sense to me... You sure it's an investigator?

Author:	Paradigm Karaoke [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
As far as I can tell, that go online and see who has Karaoke. That's about it. Can you think of any other reason someone would come in, sit in the best seat close to the tv and only take pictures of sc lyric screens and logos? ...nothing else, only sc...and lots of them followed by reviewing them? I can't,but I'm willing to listen to other ideas.

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Author:	SINGA USA [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
My guess is you are being trolled by a competitor.

Author:	mrscott [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
Maybe you hurt little Jimmy H.'s feelings by calling his company a bad name. He is going to "show you" who is "the big boy" and either hold his breath until he turns blue, or send his big brother to beat up your big brother. Honestly, I do see this as some sort of retaliation to things being posted here on this forum. It's getting beyond a joke how infantile this entire situation has turned.

Author:	doowhatchulike [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
I don't know...it seems that if he was THAT obvious about what he was doing, it wouldn't have hurt for you to confront him about it. Not sure what that could have accomplished, but pointing out suspicious activity of ANY type is in everyone's best interest...

Author:	The Lone Ranger [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
Just had a thought, since you are trying to comply with everything and PEP should know who you are, does it have to be PEP that is checking you out? Could it be some of the publishers who have hired agents, and your audit would mean little to them, since it only protects you from being sued by PEP. There would be little protection for hosts if the big boys start to play. Then again maybe Jim was just trying to demonstrate to you that they do have investigators?

Author:	JimHarrington [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
We did not have any investigators active in your area last night.

Author:	The Lone Ranger [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
I'm sure you did not Jim, you having such a small company and money being tight, make sure you cover the utilities they will cut them off, if you don't.

Author:	Cueball [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
JimHarrington wrote: We did not have any investigators active in your area last night. Did Paradigm Karaoke state that this occurred last night? So, WHEN did you have an investigator active in his area?

Author:	Lonman [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
He stated it happened last night on a FB post. I think it was competition trying to freak him out and nothing more. I had a guy at my shown a few weeks back doing almost the same thing, asking for obscure SC tracks ie 8125, 8148, 8195 specifically. Then saw him taking pics of the splash screens and lyrics of SC tracks other singers were singing.

Author:	JimHarrington [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
cueball wrote: JimHarrington wrote: We did not have any investigators active in your area last night. Did Paradigm Karaoke state that this occurred last night? So, WHEN did you have an investigator active in his area? I understood the use of the present tense in his post to imply that it was occurring at that moment. I am not 100% certain without looking (and I'm not at my office) when we last had an investigator active in his area, but I know that could not possibly be one of ours, for the following reasons: (1) I have supervisory responsibility over investigations in that area, and I have not ordered any investigations there recently. (2) Our investigators are trained to be discreet in their movements, and they have equipment that would be it completely unnecessary for them to be so obvious in taking photographs. (3) We have no need at all to investigate Paradigm, as his operation is licensed. (4) We do "secret shop" our licensees periodically just to make sure they are following the terms of the license, but that would not involve behavior like this. (The whole point of that exercise is to make an undetected visit.) And we aren't doing that in Arizona right now anyway. (5) It is not unusual to hear of vigilante investigators who think they are doing us a favor by "gathering evidence." Of course, we can't use any of that as evidence. If you want to make us aware of someone you think is infringing, we have reporting tools on our websites. Name, place, and time are sufficient. Most likely, this was a competitor who was trying to spook him for some reason.

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Author:	The Lone Ranger [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
Video at 10.

Author:	Cueball [ Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
Lonman wrote: He stated it happened last night on a FB post. OK... I didn't know that, as I am not "friended" with Paradigm on FB, so I wouldn't have seen his posts there. JimHarrington wrote: I understood the use of the present tense in his post to imply that it was occurring at that moment. I assumed the same thing from his post here, but, you can never be 100% certain of that unless it was actually stated. This could have happened a few days before that, and he just decided to post about it today. But, that being said, thank you for the rest of your response. JimHarrington wrote: (3) We have no need at all to investigate Paradigm, as his operation is licensed. I figured that much to be so as well (since Paradigm Karaoke did post that he had undergone a volutary audit with SC or PEP).

Author:	timberlea [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
Investigations can be overt or covert. In these days of smartphones where everyone is taking pictures and videos, one may not know if one is an investigator or not.

Author:	Toastedmuffin [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
JimHarrington wrote: cueball wrote: JimHarrington wrote: We did not have any investigators active in your area last night. Did Paradigm Karaoke state that this occurred last night? So, WHEN did you have an investigator active in his area? I understood the use of the present tense in his post to imply that it was occurring at that moment. I am not 100% certain without looking (and I'm not at my office) when we last had an investigator active in his area, but I know that could not possibly be one of ours, for the following reasons: (1) I have supervisory responsibility over investigations in that area, and I have not ordered any investigations there recently. (2) Our investigators are trained to be discreet in their movements, and they have equipment that would be it completely unnecessary for them to be so obvious in taking photographs. (3) We have no need at all to investigate Paradigm, as his operation is licensed. (4) We do "secret shop" our licensees periodically just to make sure they are following the terms of the license, but that would not involve behavior like this. (The whole point of that exercise is to make an undetected visit.) And we aren't doing that in Arizona right now anyway. (5) It is not unusual to hear of vigilante investigators who think they are doing us a favor by "gathering evidence." Of course, we can't use any of that as evidence. If you want to make us aware of someone you think is infringing, we have reporting tools on our websites. Name, place, and time are sufficient. Most likely, this was a competitor who was trying to spook him for some reason. So you aren't investigating any registered users, unless of course you are investigating them (See #4 in Harrington's quote). I would also think that if PEP has investigators in the area, they certainly aren't going to tell the likes of us. If what they are doing is public knowledge, thst might disrupt their investigations. While I don't believe Paradigm is doing anything illegal at all, might I suggest that he looks into lawyers that deal with PEP type issues, just in case. Not any retainers or anything of that sort, but at least know the copyright lawyers in your area.

Author:	JimHarrington [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
Oh, good grief. Toastedmuffin wrote: So you aren't investigating any registered users, unless of course you are investigating them (See #4 in Harrington's quote). When I use the term "investigating," I am referring to the gathering of information for use in determining whether or not to sue an unlicensed operator or venue for infringement. We do not "investigate" licensed operators. We do occasionally send representatives out to licensee shows. The purpose of these visits is usually just routine monitoring for compliance with the terms of the license, but sometimes we are responding to a complaint or a tip. We may or may not disclose these visits to the licensee, depending on our purposes. However, we DO NOT "investigate" licensees in the manner that we investigate unlicensed operators and venues. Toastedmuffin wrote: I would also think that if PEP has investigators in the area, they certainly aren't going to tell the likes of us. If what they are doing is public knowledge, thst might disrupt their investigations. We don't usually disclose the presence of our investigative teams in any given area, at least not until after they have completed their work. Generally speaking, if pirates get word that we are potentially investigating them, they will decline to play SC for a few days or a couple of weeks until they think the coast is clear. Toastedmuffin wrote: While I don't believe Paradigm is doing anything illegal at all, might I suggest that he looks into lawyers that deal with PEP type issues, just in case. Not any retainers or anything of that sort, but at least know the copyright lawyers in your area. Paradigm has nothing to worry about from us. He knows that. There is therefore no reason why he would need to "know the copyright lawyers in his area"--but, lest you get the wrong idea, I am not discouraging him from doing so. It's always a good idea to get information and advice from a experienced attorney who knows the issues and operates with your best interests in mind.

Author:	Toastedmuffin [ Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: horrible investigator
JimHarrington wrote: When I use the term "investigating," I am referring to the gathering of information for use in determining whether or not to sue an unlicensed operator or venue for infringement. We do not "investigate" licensed operators. We do occasionally send representatives out to licensee shows. The purpose of these visits is usually just routine monitoring for compliance with the terms of the license, but sometimes we are responding to a complaint or a tip. We may or may not disclose these visits to the licensee, depending on our purposes. However, we DO NOT "investigate" licensees in the manner that we investigate unlicensed operators and venues. Call it what you will. It doesn't matter what the reason is, or if it's better or worse then an unlicensed operator, PEP is investigating them. If PEP is looking into registered users, and without telling them. It's NOT a social visit. Quote: We don't usually disclose the presence of our investigative teams in any given area, at least not until after they have completed their work. Generally speaking, if pirates get word that we are potentially investigating them, they will decline to play SC for a few days or a couple of weeks until they think the coast is clear. Pretty much what I said: It's not a "gotcha" thing, it's a fact. PEP wants to make sure their investigations get to a satisfactory conclusion, nothing more. But you aren't going to tell anyone they have/have not been investigated 24/48 hours after doing it. So even if Paradigm was in fact looked over, PEP isn't going to say because they are in the area. No reason to alert the public until your done. Quote: Paradigm has nothing to worry about from us. He knows that. There is therefore no reason why he would need to "know the copyright lawyers in his area"--but, lest you get the wrong idea, I am not discouraging him from doing so. It's always a good idea to get information and advice from a experienced attorney who knows the issues and operates with your best interests in mind. He might know that, but it seems that for one reason or another, someone was casing his show. I'm not saying it was PEP, but who's to say it's not. I'm sorry, but given the circumstances most of us really can't take the word of a PEP lawyer who's paycheck is attached to the interests of the company they work for. I never said he SHOULD get a lawyer, but it's always better to play it safe then to be sorry later. Good grief indeed.