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mwanteddj
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 Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:09 am |
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:14 am
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cueball wrote: chrisavis wrote: Pretty sure that if you have discs, all you have to do is demonstrate that and all this goes away. I have been through the audit. It just isn't that big of a deal. Also, I don't know of any cases of anyone getting in trouble post-audit. Here's the problem with that.... mwanteddj was NOT originally contacted directly. The venues where he worked at were. The venues brought it to mwanteddj's attention, and (since he wasn't a member of this Forum (and probably not of any other karaoke forum)) he thought it was someone trying to scam the venue into paying out money (like some of those people who go to bars and pretend they are from ASCAP or BMI or SESAC), and as such, told the Venues to ignore it. Being out of the loop regarding the stance SC and PEP have taken on piracy for the past 5 years, mjwanteddj even posted that since he had all of his discs and receipts for them, he and the venues both agreed that either they had nothing to worry about, or it was a scam. That was his (mwanteddj) fault for not attempting to contact SC/PEP immediately after that to verify if this was legit or someone trying to scam the venue instead of just dismissing the notification as he did. Oh well.... too late now. BUT, this is where your comment doesn't help mwanteddj... Since he dismissed those notifications, SC/PEP followed up with their threat, and he got fired from 3 lucrative gigs. Now, he had to pay for a Lawyer to get his case dismissed by SC/PEP. I'm sure that mwanteddj has demonstrated to the venues that he does have all of his discs, but even if he now (post Lawsuit) demonstrated to SC/PEP that he has all of his discs and receipts, (contrary to how you put it) it didn't all go away (except for his employment at those venues). Either those venues have decided to do away with Karaoke all together (because they don't want to be bothered with this legal side of things), or they hired someone else (who wasn't/isn't on SC/PEP's radar). What do you think the chances are that they are now going to hire him back? Exactly. I'm guilty of ignorance, might even admit to negligence. Unfortunately, my attorney informed me that to fight it, and/or try for a dismissal the case would have to go to trial. Because it is Federal, attorney fees alone would cost me "tens of thousands". My attorneys words, not mine. We have made offers/suggestions to settle, but PEP wouldn't accept.
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chrisavis
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:18 am |
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 pm
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Location: Redmond, WA
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cueball wrote: chrisavis wrote: Pretty sure that if you have discs, all you have to do is demonstrate that and all this goes away. I have been through the audit. It just isn't that big of a deal. Also, I don't know of any cases of anyone getting in trouble post-audit. Here's the problem with that.... mwanteddj was NOT originally contacted directly. The venues where he worked at were. The venues brought it to mwanteddj's attention, and (since he wasn't a member of this Forum (and probably not of any other karaoke forum)) he thought it was someone trying to scam the venue into paying out money (like some of those people who go to bars and pretend they are from ASCAP or BMI or SESAC), and as such, told the Venues to ignore it. Being out of the loop regarding the stance SC and PEP have taken on piracy for the past 5 years, mjwanteddj even posted that since he had all of his discs and receipts for them, he and the venues both agreed that either they had nothing to worry about, or it was a scam. That was his (mwanteddj) fault for not attempting to contact SC/PEP immediately after that to verify if this was legit or someone trying to scam the venue instead of just dismissing the notification as he did. Oh well.... too late now. BUT, this is where your comment doesn't help mwanteddj... Since he dismissed those notifications, SC/PEP followed up with their threat, and he got fired from 3 lucrative gigs. Now, he had to pay for a Lawyer to get his case dismissed by SC/PEP. I'm sure that mwanteddj has demonstrated to the venues that he does have all of his discs, but even if he now (post Lawsuit) demonstrated to SC/PEP that he has all of his discs and receipts, (contrary to how you put it) it didn't all go away (except for his employment at those venues). Either those venues have decided to do away with Karaoke all together (because they don't want to be bothered with this legal side of things), or they hired someone else (who wasn't/isn't on SC/PEP's radar). What do you think the chances are that they are now going to hire him back? I have two answers for this..... Know the business you are in..... Ignorance is NOT bliss....
_________________
-Chris
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mwanteddj
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:46 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:14 am
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chrisavis wrote: cueball wrote: chrisavis wrote: Pretty sure that if you have discs, all you have to do is demonstrate that and all this goes away. I have been through the audit. It just isn't that big of a deal. Also, I don't know of any cases of anyone getting in trouble post-audit. Here's the problem with that.... mwanteddj was NOT originally contacted directly. The venues where he worked at were. The venues brought it to mwanteddj's attention, and (since he wasn't a member of this Forum (and probably not of any other karaoke forum)) he thought it was someone trying to scam the venue into paying out money (like some of those people who go to bars and pretend they are from ASCAP or BMI or SESAC), and as such, told the Venues to ignore it. Being out of the loop regarding the stance SC and PEP have taken on piracy for the past 5 years, mjwanteddj even posted that since he had all of his discs and receipts for them, he and the venues both agreed that either they had nothing to worry about, or it was a scam. That was his (mwanteddj) fault for not attempting to contact SC/PEP immediately after that to verify if this was legit or someone trying to scam the venue instead of just dismissing the notification as he did. Oh well.... too late now. BUT, this is where your comment doesn't help mwanteddj... Since he dismissed those notifications, SC/PEP followed up with their threat, and he got fired from 3 lucrative gigs. Now, he had to pay for a Lawyer to get his case dismissed by SC/PEP. I'm sure that mwanteddj has demonstrated to the venues that he does have all of his discs, but even if he now (post Lawsuit) demonstrated to SC/PEP that he has all of his discs and receipts, (contrary to how you put it) it didn't all go away (except for his employment at those venues). Either those venues have decided to do away with Karaoke all together (because they don't want to be bothered with this legal side of things), or they hired someone else (who wasn't/isn't on SC/PEP's radar). What do you think the chances are that they are now going to hire him back? I have two answers for this..... Know the business you are in..... Ignorance is NOT bliss.... Based on these statements I presume your compassion and ethics are in line with Harrington and Slep. It's not even about a ten-grand-PLUS loss of annual income for me anymore, nor do I care about the money I won't make from these three venues. It is about the principle. This SO borders on unconstitutional I can't believe that any judge allows the allegations of the plaintiffs to continue! The town of 6,000 which I was born in and have grown up in, I can no longer work at two locations. One dropped me a few years ago because Sesac demanded a fee for "live performance". I told the owner, as a reasonable businessman myself, I understood and I would have done the same- cut karaoke since it wasn't bringing in many people anyway. Now, years later I lose the opportunity to play at my other hometown bar! I like being able to drive FOUR miles to a gig! I have even gotten over the fact that pirates got one of my really good gigs at a venue that has a great stage and sound system and promotes upcoming bands. What really gets me though, is the fact that NO lawsuits have happened to anyone else in my area. One place 90 miles away got it dismissed somehow, but I consider that outside of my karaoke service area. Anyway... I'm going to get back on the track of rising above this (as I have done for most of the past six months), because it is beneath me. I need not worry or stress or lose sleep over ANYTHING to do with these low life, heartless, GREEDY individuals. Good day, and happy holidays.
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Karaoke Croaker
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:18 pm |
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I guess it would have been easier for you to just pay them for their Gem series and move on with your business. That is their approach to making money these days. You would have had to only pay about 5 grand to keep your gigs. Hello Partner.
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Cueball
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:28 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:55 pm
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Location: New York City
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mwanteddj wrote: We have made offers/suggestions to settle, but PEP wouldn't accept. If you don't mind me asking, AND, if you are under no legal restraints to discuss the specifics of your case, I am curious to know what offers/suggestions you and your Lawyer made to settle (which PEP refused).
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mwanteddj
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:37 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:14 am
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I don't know if I should say since it isn't done, but basically I believe I was willing to submit to an audit "pre-lawsuit", or basically without the ten pages of demands in the post lawsuit option.
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Lonman
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:36 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
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I believe the club that dropped you because of Sesac, didnt realize they also need to pay BMI and ASCAP as well even if they only have tv and music playing.
_________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Smoothedge69
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Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:13 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:55 am
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To MY way of thinking, the best was to protect yourself, and your venues from Slep/Pep and the Harrington Squad, is to just drop the product, altogether, as I have done. I have nothing to worry about, no reason to carry a player or discs, and no reason to spend any extra money on unnecessary audits. I have plenty of music that make my customers happy, and little by little I am replacing my SC with other brands that are just as good, if not better. Obviously, I don't NEED SC for NEW music, since they haven't made any since 2009.
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chrisavis
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Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:31 am |
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 pm
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Location: Redmond, WA
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mwanteddj wrote: chrisavis wrote: cueball wrote: chrisavis wrote: Pretty sure that if you have discs, all you have to do is demonstrate that and all this goes away. I have been through the audit. It just isn't that big of a deal. Also, I don't know of any cases of anyone getting in trouble post-audit. Here's the problem with that.... mwanteddj was NOT originally contacted directly. The venues where he worked at were. The venues brought it to mwanteddj's attention, and (since he wasn't a member of this Forum (and probably not of any other karaoke forum)) he thought it was someone trying to scam the venue into paying out money (like some of those people who go to bars and pretend they are from ASCAP or BMI or SESAC), and as such, told the Venues to ignore it. Being out of the loop regarding the stance SC and PEP have taken on piracy for the past 5 years, mjwanteddj even posted that since he had all of his discs and receipts for them, he and the venues both agreed that either they had nothing to worry about, or it was a scam. That was his (mwanteddj) fault for not attempting to contact SC/PEP immediately after that to verify if this was legit or someone trying to scam the venue instead of just dismissing the notification as he did. Oh well.... too late now. BUT, this is where your comment doesn't help mwanteddj... Since he dismissed those notifications, SC/PEP followed up with their threat, and he got fired from 3 lucrative gigs. Now, he had to pay for a Lawyer to get his case dismissed by SC/PEP. I'm sure that mwanteddj has demonstrated to the venues that he does have all of his discs, but even if he now (post Lawsuit) demonstrated to SC/PEP that he has all of his discs and receipts, (contrary to how you put it) it didn't all go away (except for his employment at those venues). Either those venues have decided to do away with Karaoke all together (because they don't want to be bothered with this legal side of things), or they hired someone else (who wasn't/isn't on SC/PEP's radar). What do you think the chances are that they are now going to hire him back? I have two answers for this..... Know the business you are in..... Ignorance is NOT bliss.... Based on these statements I presume your compassion and ethics are in line with Harrington and Slep. It's not even about a ten-grand-PLUS loss of annual income for me anymore, nor do I care about the money I won't make from these three venues. It is about the principle. This SO borders on unconstitutional I can't believe that any judge allows the allegations of the plaintiffs to continue! The town of 6,000 which I was born in and have grown up in, I can no longer work at two locations. One dropped me a few years ago because Sesac demanded a fee for "live performance". I told the owner, as a reasonable businessman myself, I understood and I would have done the same- cut karaoke since it wasn't bringing in many people anyway. Now, years later I lose the opportunity to play at my other hometown bar! I like being able to drive FOUR miles to a gig! I have even gotten over the fact that pirates got one of my really good gigs at a venue that has a great stage and sound system and promotes upcoming bands. What really gets me though, is the fact that NO lawsuits have happened to anyone else in my area. One place 90 miles away got it dismissed somehow, but I consider that outside of my karaoke service area. Anyway... I'm going to get back on the track of rising above this (as I have done for most of the past six months), because it is beneath me. I need not worry or stress or lose sleep over ANYTHING to do with these low life, heartless, GREEDY individuals. Good day, and happy holidays. You assume wrong. While I generally support SC/PEP/Slep/Harrington, I do not agree with all of the methods they use. I chose to be more proactive about things when I jumped into the karaoke world. I had different plans than most that demanded I learn what I needed to know in a pretty short time span. But that doesn't preclude even casual hobbyist from knowing what obligations they have and challenges they may face when accepting compensation for services performed. It isn't hard or expensive to comply with SC/PEP policies. People simply put up walls in the name of "principle" as justification for their stubbornness. Most of those people come across as pretty unhappy with how karaoke is a lot of the time. I find that the folks that follow the rules generally seem more content with their operations and the world of karaoke in general.
_________________
-Chris
Last edited by chrisavis on Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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timberlea
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Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:52 pm |
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Dropping the brand now does not negate the ongoing lawsuit. From my understanding when the suit was launched one of the options was submit to an audit and if you passed the suit is dropped. If not, then the offer of a GEM series is made. Was this not true in your case?
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You can be strange but not a stranger
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mwanteddj
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Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:52 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:14 am
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Cueball
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Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:55 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:55 pm
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Location: New York City
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mwanteddj wrote: timberlea wrote: ... From my understanding when the suit was launched one of the options was submit to an audit and if you passed the suit is dropped. If not, then the offer of a GEM series is made. Was this not true in your case? It wasn't. @ mwanteddj: I don't think you answered that quite accurately (based on what you posted before). You didn't mention whether or not you were offered (I use that term loosely) the option of paying for the GEM series or not; however, you were offered the opportunity to submit to an audit (on their terms, not yours), and (as you stated below) you refused. mwanteddj wrote: July two of the four received lawsuits (which also named me and my biz of course). A few days later my attorney emailed me ten pages of demands/specifications I had to meet for the "post lawsuit audit". There happened to be a sentence in there that made me feel that, even though I had discs and receipts, the demands were worded in such a way, that I felt that submitting to the audit (POST lawsuit) it would've been threatening.....
... I chose to be safer, and NOT agree to an audit. Now, if they did not offer you the purchase of a GEM Series, or mention other options (such as agreeing to remove all SC content from your hard drive, or even agreeing to quit the business), there may have been other factors involved (which you either neglected to mention in your posts, or you are not at liberty to discuss without jeopardizing your pending case).
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