Karaoke Forums

tell me why no one will go after the pirates we're reporting??

I just went to a new venue that opened in my area. They already hired a known pirate. I went into my anti-piracy campaign, gave them all the info and literature. Bottom line, the owner doesn't care.

Do you know how much I would love someone from SC to show up at their door and put them out. Not in a month or year or if ever, but now! See, I told you so! Wouldn't it be nice if we can actually say that phrase.

There are many known pirates operating in my area. I would love to call and report each one, but I know it's just a waste of time. The bar owners are right, nothing's gonna to happen.

But I just wish that SC would make the leads that we have offered a priority and go after these pirates. It's very frustrating to see the same pirates that have been reported still out there 10 years later.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I tried the same in my area through the DJ association, No one will enforce and even if they did, they just tell them it's wrong to DJ with unauthorized copies of music.

You can try Going through the soundChoice site directly, Not sure if they still give you a free disk for reporting though.

Easy way is to simply call the Club itself and let them know that there have been reports made of the use of unlicensed material being used and they will wake up fast.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Free sc disc for reporting a pirate? How I wish. Nice to have 2 free discs ‘cause I absolutely positively know 2 pirates in my surrounding area. They were disc based 5 yrs ago with 7-10k songs. In a short period of time after their transition from cd to hd they started advertising with 60-70k in their library.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

Because there is no money to be made going after pirates who don't even bother to pay for their music. It is more profitable to go after legitimate hosts, and subject them to leases and annual audit fees to maintain certifications. It is better to have a steady stream of income from legitimate hosts, than to spend money going after pirates who more than likely will not be able to pay anything.

the pirates have no money and have no desire to pay for music, suing them gets no financial return, so no reason to sue.
the Pirates display the SC logo keeping, it in the face of the singers....advertising.
the legit hosts pay for music properly, therefore are more willing to spend money to stay legit
suing legit hosts or forcing audits (or GEM leases) gets financial return, so a reason to sue.
suing the bars who hire pirates...same problem as suing the pirates themselves, no financial return from someone working with the lowest bottom line (read that as cheap) as they are unwilling to spend for it anyway, they would just drop karaoke all together removing the logo from view of the patrons and lessening advertising)

i wish they would too but it is more cost efficient to send investigators to new uncharted areas for legit hosts to strongarm than it is to follow the certified hosts and help them in return for being helpful (by going for a voluntary audit to make the job easier of differentiating between legit/pirate). in a place like Phoenix for example, there are numerous certified hosts who could use some help after helping SC, and while suits continued here, we are left to flounder in the pirate swamp.

SC/PEP, we helped by doing our part and getting audited (we as the collective certified hosts, not we as in ME specifically), to date (5 years later) none of the "help" or "benefits" of being certified have come. there were promises of increased suit activity against pirates in the direct area and assistance taking the bars by giving bar owners their own way out (leaving the pirate to be sued alone) by hiring a certified host. none of that has happened. so far the only help we have received in return for doing the right thing and helping SC has been the privilege to do it all over again for CB discs, and pre-pay for new discs that (once again) never came. no pirate hosts are afraid, no bars are afraid, and they have no reason to be. they know as well as anyone, they will not have anything happen. anyone they know who has been sued, has been let go. they can look at court records (if they even know these suits are happening) and see nothing but dismissals. they see no deterrent, and because of that, they have not only not stopped, but piracy has (as Jim has reported) increased since suits began. we are handing you pirates, and in return, we are given the finger. so much for helping the helper.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Old point/argument.... The same thing has been said here over and over again by several others (and in some cases, by the same person) over the past 5 years.

I'd LOVE to see that happen!!!!!!!

Wrong!!! Here's what will happen... The Venue will eventually get named in a lawsuit by PEP, edited....and then they will stop having karaoke (claiming it isn't worth the hassles),edited and they will label you as a trouble-maker and spread the word to other Venues not to hire you.

BTW... for the benefit of others, my last comment was also an old point/argument that others have made here in the past 5 years.

i disagree with you on this one part only. Reporting them will only ensure that they are NOT named in a lawsuit. so far THAT point is 100% accurate.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

I just send a PM directly to Jim when I see SoundChoice related material out there in the internet world. hey at 35,000.00 a pop for soundchoice, maybe one day they will reward me with a Gem set just for the effort.

Considering that NO legitimate host has ever been "subjected" to a lease and our certifications have always been permanent with no annual fee, I'd say this argument has no merit at all.

I don't mind criticism, but you don't get to choose your own facts.

We have to be cost-effective. We have very limited resources. We have to do things the right way, not necessarily the way you'd like. These things take time.

Your estimate of the amount of revenue generated by going after a pirate is wildly out of step with reality. Very few pirates have the resources to pay that much money even over time.

Do I misunderstand that the GEM series is essentially a lease (although the wording on the website says ""possessory license")?


Granted, the original term was for 5 years, but still a lease with a renewal fee, nonetheless. The current renewal term is going to be 3 years. How long until it is an annual renewal fee?

I'll concede that it does not say anywhere on the website that I could see that there is an annual renewal fee for certification. I mistakenly thought that recertification was an annual requirement, but I now see that recertification is optional.




So, either pay a certification fee (and optional recertification fees) to be able to use already purchased product that is media-shifted, avoid certification by paying a monthly fee for a HELP license, or lease the GEM series with renewal fees after a certain variable number of years. No annual fees... yet. No matter which route a karaoke host decides to go to prove they are legitimate, they are going to end up paying fees to PEP to be able use SoundChoice (and now Chartbusters) products on top of whatever they already paid for products they may have.

I understand the need to combat piracy. I don't think it should be done on the backs of legitimate hosts though in the form of additional fees that cut into their (already) slim profit margins. I also don't think it is good business to sue your customers, and make them pay to use product they already own. Why punish the hosts that supported your (now defunct) company? I guess PEP needs to make money somehow, right?

Bottom line is that SC and now PEP has done nothing to curb piracy. It has only managed to piss off a lot of legal KJ's and scare a whole lot more into giving them money for suggested promises that were never kept. Can any host out there tell me that they have actually had an increase in their business and revenue by becoming Certified? NO I am not talking to you Chris because I know you get your venues by hard work going out and actually trying to get it. I'm talking about those that have become Certified and then asking for more money from their current venue because they have become Certified and thus keeping SC/PEP from suing them. I don't think I will get many responses

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

There is no reason for an already-legitimate host to license the GEM series unless they want the additional music.

There is no reason for an already-legitimate host to purchase a HELP license unless they want to use SC tracks they don't have discs for.

We lose money on the certification process. It's not a profit center.

We NEVER sue a host we expect to be legit; doing so would be a huge waste of time and money. We don't target legitimate hosts. We target pirates. And fewer than 2% of the hosts we've sued have turned out to be legit. (The actual number is around 1%. That's a record I will take all day long.)

We usually charge for certification, because (a) you need our permission to media-shift, and (b) it costs us money to do what's necessary to get you the permission you need. Every legitimate host has the option to use the product we sold them, the original discs, without any further fees or hassle. And every disc we've ever sold has warned the purchaser that our permission is needed for copying.

ok, i'm curious....
shipping a stamp, skyping with a host, adding their name to your website and shipping a paper certificate costs more than $250?

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

There's a lot more to it than that.

We have to pay there people who do the audits, too, and the marking ink is very expensive.

We also don't always charge $250. Sometimes we do it for much less than that.

Certification is now $250?? God, now it's just greed. 38 discs at $250. Ha!!! $6.58 a disc. That makes my discs cost $31 each. Not worth it.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Why is automatically greed? You don't have any idea what the costs are to implement and maintain certification.

That would be like saying I am greedy for charging $250 for a karaoke night when you only charge $150. My costs are different, what I offer is different, and what I do for my customers is different.

Oh wait.....it's Sound Choice/PEP. I should have just jumped to the conclusion that it is evil and greedy.

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-Chris

I paid for my discs already. I am not going to pay another 26% per disc to certify them. To my way of thinking, that is greed. I pay out enough, I don't need extra charges, charged to me for the mighty SC to give me permission to use the music I already bought the way I want to use it. Greed is NOT a good way to do business. Chris, it would mot matter if it were Zoom, DK, Party Tyme, or any other company. If Allan & Heath wanted to charge me extra to use their boards in public, then I wouldn't use their products, either. I don't like greedy people or greedy companies. Never have.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Guess again counsel; every single one of your gem customers have been "subjected to a lease"... but you like to call it something else.... because it sounds better and that's a "fact."

You seem to have plenty of resources for acquiring trademarks, making public domain children's discs and expanding your lawsuit machine... But when it comes to doing what you've promised for 6 years --- like going after confirmed pirates who are hurting your potential customers, suddenly there are "limited resources."

Amazingly convenient how that happens isn't it?