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DannyG2006
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 Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:37 pm |
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jamkaraoke @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:22 am wrote: RNSK @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:27 am wrote: Hello! I've been poking my way around forums all over the internet today kinda searching for an answer to this question.  I'm very new to the KJ scene. I've purchased a relatively large collection of legitimate CDGs, from a KJ that's giving it up (I got a stellar deal, too). I've combined that with my collection that I've been steadily gathering since 16 years old, and I've mustered nearly 3,000 tracks! I'd say approaching 1/3 of them are Sound Choice, but the rest are pretty evenly spread among 5 or 6 different manufacturers. I do NOT want to lug these discs around (I've literally spent months format-shifting them, and I've grown up working with computers; the value of the familiarity, ease and convenience of them is inestimable for me). I've read for HOURS the debates about laptops, etc., so no need to educate me on that. I've made the choice that I'd rather just ditch, and stop further purchasing of, the CDGs that are subject to these invasive audits and lawsuits, and keep my show high tech (again, no need to lecture me on how necessary a holy crusade this slew of litigation is, I've read every possible angle of that argument). So far I've got Sound Choice as being the front runner, having filed suit against over 150 KJs/ establishments in Ohio, Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Virginia, and Tennessee. I've heard that Chartbuster is gearing up for litigation as well (confirm/deny?); I've also heard mention Party Tyme (confirm/deny?). I don't even want to download karaoke from any of these manufacturers from their supposedly legit sources. I'm done with them until they stop suing people. Anyone out there knowledgeable in this area that can help me generate a list of companies that I'd personally want to stray from, given the decision I've made, or can comment on the categorical accuracy of the aforementioned companies as active KJ pirate hunter/fishers casting their wide, indiscriminate litigation-nets out over karaoke venues featuring laptop-only KJs? Thanks, again #1: Buy the CDG #2: Rip the files to mp3+g and store on a hard drive #3: Store the original CDG in a safe place #4: Go be a good KJ and don't worry about law suits I will add if you get a letter of intent from Sound Choice, Don't follow Alan's advice as you go through an audit and you're done as long as you have the discs to back up your computer collection. I know of a couple who went through the audit and came out with letters that state that they were now given permission to format shift their library of Sound Choice discs.
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RNSK
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:00 pm |
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Ah, you're a lady! The avatar should have been my first clue
I'll stick around, for sure. Friendly people and a wealth of information, who could resist?
I'm as green as they come, though. I have so many questions that don't seem likely to be answered by google-searches.
I've been the local family-and-friend karaoke host for years now, and I've made a couple bucks, but I want to broaden my horizons. I feel like now I finally have a collection approaching adequate for the task, but I want to do it right.
And I didn't know my 3,000+ tracks amounted to small beans (soon to be smaller, after imminent pruning). My book is about as thick as most books I've perused at different karaoke venues (although that may be do to print format), and everyone I know has been able to find different songs to perform throughout the set. Alas, more is better. Just a little shot to my ego.
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RLC
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:54 pm |
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RNSK @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:00 pm wrote: And I didn't know my 3,000+ tracks amounted to small beans (soon to be smaller, after imminent pruning). My book is about as thick as most books I've perused at different karaoke venues (although that may be do to print format), and everyone I know has been able to find different songs to perform throughout the set. Alas, more is better. Just a little shot to my ego.
No, More does not automatically mean better. If within your 3000 song collection you have the "right" songs then 3000 is more than enough to run a very sucessfull karaoke show. Your due diligence is to find the "right" songs for the type of venue you will be working. I think and believe that if one were to keep a history of every song sung at the same venue over a years time that 600-700 songs would satisfy 99% of that venues songs sung history.
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diafel
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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:05 pm |
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RNSK @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:00 pm wrote: My book is about as thick as most books I've perused at different karaoke venues (although that may be do to print format), and everyone I know has been able to find different songs to perform throughout the set. Alas, more is better. Just a little shot to my ego.
You just said it better than anyone could. Having a small book means nothing if you have the right songs, and it seems that you do.
Others could have thousands upon thousands but if they only have, for example, a few country songs when they are playing a country venue, people won't be able to find anything to sing. It's great for the rock enthusiasts (assuming he has the right rock songs to begin with), but does nothing for the country crowd.
RLC is absolutely correct 600-700 "correct" songs will satisfy the majority of the crowds. Heck, only roughly 60 songs get played in a 4 hour session and of those 60 songs, chances are that well over half are songs that are regularly sung on other nights in other venues as well.
Keep up the good work. It sounds like you're already well on the right track!
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Bazza
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:47 am |
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RLC @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:54 pm wrote: If within your 3000 song collection you have the "right" songs then 3000 is more than enough to run a very sucessfull karaoke show.
Numbers don't mean jack. It's quality of song selection.
I actually got a bid request yesterday that included the demand "Must have at least 100,000 songs". Made me laugh.
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BigJer
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:47 am |
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I should add I'm sorry if the OP thought I was putting down his collection. I wasn't. It's just most people who are pirates these days go out and by a loaded hard drive with tens of thousands of songs. If a person ever decides to be a pirate he might as well go whole hog. Btw, I'd love a list of those 600-700 songs - it'd save me a lot of money building up my own collection.
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DannyG2006
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:07 am |
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BigJer @ Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:47 am wrote: I should add I'm sorry if the OP thought I was putting down his collection. I wasn't. It's just most people who are pirates these days go out and by a loaded hard drive with tens of thousands of songs. If a person ever decides to be a pirate he might as well go whole hog. Btw, I'd love a list of those 600-700 songs - it'd save me a lot of money building up my own collection.
Problem is it isn't the same 600-700 songs for the entire world. It all depends on where you are, the songs that get sung the most.
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theCheese
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:14 am |
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Bazza @ Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:47 am wrote: RLC @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:54 pm wrote: If within your 3000 song collection you have the "right" songs then 3000 is more than enough to run a very sucessfull karaoke show. Numbers don't mean jack. It's quality of song selection. I actually got a bid request yesterday that included the demand "Must have at least 100,000 songs". Made me laugh. HAHA.. that's probably SoundChoice posting those requests!
That way, they don't have to pay investigators..
"High paying weekly gig available, must have 100,000 songs or more, include your contact information and a PDF of your songbook!"
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timberlea
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:44 am |
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And if they are, so what.
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Lonman
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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:50 am |
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RNSK @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:00 pm wrote: And I didn't know my 3,000+ tracks amounted to small beans (soon to be smaller, after imminent pruning). My book is about as thick as most books I've perused at different karaoke venues (although that may be do to print format), and everyone I know has been able to find different songs to perform throughout the set. Alas, more is better. Just a little shot to my ego. Not sure why you are so concerned about 'pruning' out SC discs. If you are running discs anyway, this is not who they are targetting. They are looking for the large library 50, 75, 100K+ songbooks running on a computer only. I think you are going to be cutting your own throat - disc users have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Keep track on which songs out of your catalog are being song, not which manu they are. If you have duplicates of the song - although I can't imagine you have a ton of dups with that size library. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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tbreen
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:03 am |
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diafel @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:45 am wrote: Alan B @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:10 am wrote: But, what if Chartbuster, and the other american manufacturers started to get involved. And what if some of the UK companies like Zoom followed suit. Then, we wouldn't have many alternatives would we? Just made me think.
I worry a little about that as well, but not too much. I'll cross that bridge when and if we come to it. However, I honestly think that the other manus are watching and learning from SC's faux pas. Perhaps they will actually invest in some REAL investigation before sending out letters and lawsuits. That is my hope, anyway. Once again, I'm not against the manus getting paid for their product. Just don't drag KJs through the mud without FIRST investigating (seeing a logo displayed on a screen is NOT "investigation) and doing their homework and having actual proof. Don't try and "strong arm" people into paying up. Oh, it's not "what if", it's definitely "WHEN"! Come on folks, I've been frequenting these forums for some time, and over the past few years endured countless topics dealing explicitly with "the manufactures NOT pursuing the pirates and why?", with everyone blaming the manufacture's apparent disregard for the rampant increase in "pirate KJs", and the resulting loss of income by the self professed "legal KJs".
Now that the manufactures ARE doing something, the topic seems to have changed to "why ARE the manufactures pursuing the pirates?". It sure seems like everyone "wants the cake and eat it too". Sure, one could argue that "it's OK to pursue, just not the way they're doing it". In my area, SC brought suit against approx. 13 KJs, with EVERY ONE settling! In fact, including these forums, I've only read or heard of a VERY limited handful of "legal" KJ's that were "dragged through the mud" as some have described it. So, it appears their investigative tactics are reasonably accurate. Therefore I propose a question to the opposition, while taking into account the investigative constraints and limitations imposed by our laws, "how would YOU suggest they go about taking down the pirates?". Please don't suggest "that they just ask the KJ", since many of you have already publicly stated that you would "show them the door", so to speak! So again, "how would YOU go about it?"
tbreen
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rumbolt
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:08 am |
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tbreen @ Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:03 am wrote: diafel @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:45 am wrote: Alan B @ Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:10 am wrote: But, what if Chartbuster, and the other american manufacturers started to get involved. And what if some of the UK companies like Zoom followed suit. Then, we wouldn't have many alternatives would we? Just made me think.
I worry a little about that as well, but not too much. I'll cross that bridge when and if we come to it. However, I honestly think that the other manus are watching and learning from SC's faux pas. Perhaps they will actually invest in some REAL investigation before sending out letters and lawsuits. That is my hope, anyway. Once again, I'm not against the manus getting paid for their product. Just don't drag KJs through the mud without FIRST investigating (seeing a logo displayed on a screen is NOT "investigation) and doing their homework and having actual proof. Don't try and "strong arm" people into paying up. Oh, it's not "what if", it's definitely "WHEN"! Come on folks, I've been frequenting these forums for some time, and over the past few years endured countless topics dealing explicitly with "the manufactures NOT pursuing the pirates and why?", with everyone blaming the manufacture's apparent disregard for the rampant increase in "pirate KJs", and the resulting loss of income by the self professed "legal KJs". Now that the manufactures ARE doing something, the topic seems to have changed to "why ARE the manufactures pursuing the pirates?". It sure seems like everyone "wants the cake and eat it too". Sure, one could argue that "it's OK to pursue, just not the way they're doing it". In my area, SC brought suit against approx. 13 KJs, with EVERY ONE settling! In fact, including these forums, I've only read or heard of a VERY limited handful of "legal" KJ's that were "dragged through the mud" as some have described it. So, it appears their investigative tactics are reasonably accurate. Therefore I propose a question to the opposition, while taking into account the investigative constraints and limitations imposed by our laws, "how would YOU suggest they go about taking down the pirates?". Please don't suggest "that they just ask the KJ", since many of you have already publicly stated that you would "show them the door", so to speak! So again, "how would YOU go about it?" tbreen I am right there with you!
In my area SC brought action against a handfull of bars and KJs and one settled, one is still in litigation due to proper ownership of karaoke equipment and is out of business (not related to the suit) and the kj there showed his legal music and the suit was dropped. They did miss some of the big fish and I think that was due to the investigators being unfamillar with the area and the Karaoke bars here. I wish they would come back and do it again. End of Story.
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:51 pm |
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i have seen in many of the threads about it, that the "report piracy" links on SC and CB websites have been used repeatedly by many members of this forum, but none have seen any of it followed up on. it would seem to me, that is SC was in Phoenix lets say, they have a list of people reported as possible pirates by other KJ's, that would be a good place to hit. however after years of reports on the same people, they have never been investigated ( i know one of them myself, 148,000 songs, not one disk owned and never investigated despite 2 other KJ's reporting him several times) sure there will be some jealous KJ wanting so and so's show, but the fact that they have not even investigated those places makes no sense. why go to random places hoping to see something and not go to where you have been led to believe there is something to see. police follow tips and leads over randomly wandering around hoping to find the criminal. the manus want our help in stopping piracy, many have helped, and the manus ignored it. not the final answer on squashing piracy, but a logical place to start that has been ignored.
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Lone Wolf
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:52 am |
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I think that they are gathering information for future visits but they can't be everywhere at once. From what I have gathered they hire local PI's in an area that do their investigating which I'm sure takes a chuck of money. If they were to hit every state at the same time I think it would bankrupt them to hire all the PI's needed and the Lawyers to file multiple multiples in each state.
It's kinda like KJAthena says.
"How do you eat an elephant?..... One bite at a time"
Which is what SC is doing.
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Thunder
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:45 pm |
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Having been through the Sound Choice audit I just don't understand the fear, if you own the disc what is the problem, request an audit and get it over with. Seems kind of pointless to pull 1/3 of your library and probably the best content that you have because you fear an audit.
What happens to the rest of your library when the other karaoke producers start filing lawsuits against pirates do you pull those as well?
I have seen a lot of argument on all four sides of the issue and just don't understand what many are making an issue out of. If you own the disc but have format shifted/copied them to a computer all the karaoke producers are asking you to do is apply for permission to use them in the new format. It isn't a difficult thing to understand you show them what is on your hard drive and you show them the disc you own, problem is solved.
I don't know what the karaoke producers other than Sound Choice are doing but from what I have read at least two others are ramping up to follow what Sound Choice is doing so I am requesting audits from them as well, I figure that way that part of it is behind me.
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Workmen
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Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:45 am |
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Is not a question of pulling because they are not audited or in compliance. Is a question of OEMs such as Sound Choice and Chartbuster applying rules that they just made up after they sold the products! It appears they are seeking to double-dip for the same product and they themselves only paying for the rights once. This may not be so but why did they not declare this position from the start. The media and format changes have been possible and used for many years.
Also I doubt their licensing on most if not all their cds covers media change. So why attack not only the illegal users but the legal cd holders too? This attitude of trying to force their legal customers to follow their newly adopted agenda is just not "Good Business"!!!
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Lone Wolf
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Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:26 pm |
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Something tells me that either
1. You are someone that has been investigated by SC or CB
2. You used to be here under another name and are back spewing the same old stuff you used to.
3. You have been living in a cage for the past 2 years.
SC is not and has never been suing for copyright infringement, it is suing for trademark infringement.
I'm not sure what CB is going after just yet as they have yet to file a suit.
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A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet
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Thunder
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Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:36 pm |
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Workmen @ Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:45 pm wrote: Is not a question of pulling because they are not audited or in compliance. Is a question of OEMs such as Sound Choice and Chartbuster applying rules that they just made up after they sold the products! It appears they are seeking to double-dip for the same product and they themselves only paying for the rights once. This may not be so but why did they not declare this position from the start. The media and format changes have been possible and used for many years.
Also I doubt their licensing on most if not all their cds covers media change. So why attack not only the illegal users but the legal cd holders too? This attitude of trying to force their legal customers to follow their newly adopted agenda is just not "Good Business"!!!
Well I am at a loss as to the attacks you see against "legal" KJs who hold the disc. It has been stated over and over here that the legal KJs who have been through the audit have no problems with any of what Sound Choice is doing. What made up rules are they applying?
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Workmen
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Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:32 pm |
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Lone Wolf @ Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:26 pm wrote: Something tells me that either
1. You are someone that has been investigated by SC or CB
2. You used to be here under another name and are back spewing the same old stuff you used to.
3. You have been living in a cage for the past 2 years.
SC is not and has never been suing for copyright infringement, it is suing for trademark infringement.
I'm not sure what CB is going after just yet as they have yet to file a suit. Virgin Karaoke @ Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:36 pm wrote: Well I am at a loss as to the attacks you see against "legal" KJs who hold the disc. It has been stated over and over here that the legal KJs who have been through the audit have no problems with any of what Sound Choice is doing. What made up rules are they applying?
Fine you want to find out the hard way just do as they ask. No I have nothing against either karaoke OEM nor have I ever been here under any other NIC. I have never been nor will I be investigated by these guys but was caught up in the Direct TV mass mailing of pirates and did buy a device for a friend on my creditcard. No I was not sued but was threatened and those threats started much like Sound Choice has made.
No trademark violation has been talked about here, only copyright violations. If the user of a karaoke song is a pirate fine they should be prosecuted but statements made by Sound Choices legal arm ( http://www.apsandassociates.com/soundchoice/ ) are not as those who have posted in this forum think but they will be used.
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act modifications are many and still there is no clear case law or decisions on media or format changes. If you have the legal cds for the songs you should be covered and no other agreements should be needed.
http://www.mtu.com/support/copyright-notes.htm
http://ipjustice.org/wp/2007/02/22/karaoke_legal_myths/
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Thunder
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Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:55 pm |
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I have already been through the audit with Sound Choice by my choice. What am I waiting to see?
I haven't seen any other agreement being needed, what exactly are you tslking about?
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