Karaoke Forums

Hello! I've been poking my way around forums all over the internet today kinda searching for an answer to this question.

I'm very new to the KJ scene. I've purchased a relatively large collection of legitimate CDGs, from a KJ that's giving it up (I got a stellar deal, too). I've combined that with my collection that I've been steadily gathering since 16 years old, and I've mustered nearly 3,000 tracks! I'd say approaching 1/3 of them are Sound Choice, but the rest are pretty evenly spread among 5 or 6 different manufacturers.

I do NOT want to lug these discs around (I've literally spent months format-shifting them, and I've grown up working with computers; the value of the familiarity, ease and convenience of them is inestimable for me).

I've read for HOURS the debates about laptops, etc., so no need to educate me on that. I've made the choice that I'd rather just ditch, and stop further purchasing of, the CDGs that are subject to these invasive audits and lawsuits, and keep my show high tech (again, no need to lecture me on how necessary a holy crusade this slew of litigation is, I've read every possible angle of that argument).

So far I've got Sound Choice as being the front runner, having filed suit against over 150 KJs/ establishments in Ohio, Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Virginia, and Tennessee. I've heard that Chartbuster is gearing up for litigation as well (confirm/deny?); I've also heard mention Party Tyme (confirm/deny?).

I don't even want to download karaoke from any of these manufacturers from their supposedly legit sources. I'm done with them until they stop suing people.

Anyone out there knowledgeable in this area that can help me generate a list of companies that I'd personally want to stray from, given the decision I've made, or can comment on the categorical accuracy of the aforementioned companies as active KJ pirate hunter/fishers casting their wide, indiscriminate litigation-nets out over karaoke venues featuring laptop-only KJs?

Thanks, again

You can't ditch anything. You must legally own the discs containing the songs that you format shifted to your laptop/computer. Why would you stop using SC or CB songs? If you are legal, you have nothing to worry about. Something sounds fishy. You are presumably legal, yet you don't want to use SC or any other U.S. manufacturer for fear of an audit/lawsuit. I'm done with you.

To answer the question, rather than give advice that was specifically NOT asked for, I only know of Sound Choice being definitely in the lawsuit market. I've also heard the rumours that Chartbuster will be joining their ranks, however I've not personally confirmed it. As for Party Tyme, this is the first I've heard f it.

I don't think he meant getting rid of the discs, just not carrying them to every show.

He's asking a legitimate question. I don't blame him for not wanting the hassle (and by that, I mean the hassle of carting around discs, as well as the possible hassle of having to prove he is 1:1). I'm sure he's not going to lose any sleep over the fact that "you are done with him".

As far as I know, it's only SC and CB that are going through with the shakedown. Haven't heard anything about Party Tyme.

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Just because he's new here doesn't mean he's looking for some "pirate escape hatch". You claim something seems fishy after just that one post? If he said he had 100,000 songs, it would be different.

Here's the way I interpret this post:

1. He's got a library of CDG discs, with one third of them being from Sound Choice.
2. He then discovers and reads about the lawsuits that Souond Choice has initiated against KJ's and Venue owners for copyright infringment.
3. He then decides, because of the Sound Choice lawsuits, that he does not want to use any CDG from Sound Choice or any manufacturer where the possibility of an audit might be lilkely.

If that is correct:

Why do you think that SC, and soon to be joined by CB and others are are finally taking action? Because people have been steeling from them for years. Their methods may not be the greatest but look at how many "alleged" pirates have settled. If they were not guilty, there would be no reason for them to do so, right? So apparently SC is doing something right in getting back from these pirates.

So, here's my advice to the OP:

If you're legal, you have nothing to worry about. If you don't want to take the chance that you might be audited, then get out of the business.

Without getting into the same old debate, I'm just going to say this to the OP:
Ignore Alan. He doesn't get it.

Well, then please explain so that I do get it. I'm not trying to be smart but I don't understand what you're talking about.

I think the key was, he wants to "stop FURTHER purchasing" of the brands that might open him up to litigation.

I don't know about Party Tyme (Sybersound) suing KJs yet--not saying they won't. But their name has been associated with some headlines like "Sybersound fights piracy in the karaoke business." Those refer to a suit they brought against other karaoke manufacturers for unfair competition for not obtaining licensing. The suit was dismissed because the judge ruled they couldn't claim damages from copyright infringement when they weren't the original copyright holders. I'm not sure what happend next because all of the companies they tried to sue still went out of business soon after--Top Tunes, Karaoke Bay, Medacy, The Singing Machine and I think one other.

Diafel is correct in that SC is the only one actively suing right now and we have only heard rumors that Chartbuster intends to join in. According to Kurt Slep of Sound Choice, Stellar may also start suing and he says that Zoom has authorized SC to act on their behalf in the US. But nothing definite other than SC at this point.

That pretty much sums it up.

That's what I don't understand. Why are you so afraid of a lawsuit? If you legally own Sound Choice or whoever's discs, why are you afraid to use them for fear of an audit? I don't get it. That's why I said something sounds fishy. Unless you're not on the up and up, if you own them, you can use them. So, I ask once again:

If you have legally purchased and own these discs, why are you so afraid of a lawsuit?

I still think that this whole thing sounds fishy.

Ok. First: The OP didn't want the advice you gave. He SPECIFICALLY asked to refrain from it.
So why did you post it anyway?
As for the whole idea of removing SC discs and discs from other companies involved in those kinds of lawsuits, the reason is clear and has been stated ad nauseum throughout this message board. But I will indulge one more time just for you.
The reason is that he doesn't want the HASSLE of first being ACCUSED UNJUSTLY of being a pirate, having to go through a time consuming audit to prove his innocence whilst signing away his rights to future privacy (future audits any time SC feels like it), or, in the alternative, having to pay expensive lawyers to basically tell them to pi$$ off.
And that's just a real quick overview. In the meantime the rumours fly around town that he's a pirate and no matter what the outcome, his reputation is forever tarnished.
It's not as simple as you say, and the whole "if you're legal, you have nothing to worry about" and "If you don't agree with SC's tactics, you MUST be a pirate" mantra is becoming really tiring to those of us who choose to see things in a different light.
Just because someone doesn't want to subject themselves to that kind of abuse DOES NOT make them a pirate! And yes, I said ABUSE, because that's exactly what it is. I don't know of any other company that subjects their customers to such injustice.

I doubt someone with 3000 used tracks is a pirate...

OK, I get what you're saying. Thank you for clarifing. Your response made me think of something, though:

Right now, Sound Choice is going at it alone. And like you say, you don't have to use their music to eliminate any chance of "abuse" they might give you. But, what if Chartbuster, and the other american manufacturers started to get involved. And what if some of the UK companies like Zoom followed suit. Then, we wouldn't have many alternatives would we? Just made me think.

Anyway, your response is well thought out and elloquently stated. And I understand your reasoning. Thanks.

#1: Buy the CDG
#2: Rip the files to mp3+g and store on a hard drive
#3: Store the original CDG in a safe place
#4: Go be a good KJ and don't worry about law suits

I got it, what exactly did Alan miss? It sounds fishy to me too. Call me skeptical, but this seem to be the place where everyone gets their info (wrong, right or otherwise). I suggest that the person in question get the "facts" directly from the manus.

_________________
No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

That is a great way to put it in perspective.

_________________
No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

I worry a little about that as well, but not too much. I'll cross that bridge when and if we come to it.
However, I honestly think that the other manus are watching and learning from SC's faux pas. Perhaps they will actually invest in some REAL investigation before sending out letters and lawsuits. That is my hope, anyway.
Once again, I'm not against the manus getting paid for their product. Just don't drag KJs through the mud without FIRST investigating (seeing a logo displayed on a screen is NOT "investigation) and doing their homework and having actual proof. Don't try and "strong arm" people into paying up.

I'm suddenly reminded of a phrase I've heard a lot here in the U.S. about a certain piece of legislation passed 9 years ago: "If you're not a terrorist, you have nothing to worry about." Probably shouldn't go into that--not the right place--but the situation is somewhat analogous.

Yes, it's possible that people can make business decisions based on the combination of practical and ethical issues. And as ethics vary, I didn't expect a consensus of agreement with my decision, nor was a naive enough to hope for it (thus I asked for no opinion on it, as I've heard them all). I was a little surprised at the "this sounds fishy" thing being pushed, but then again, in retrospect, I really shouldn't have (see my first quote).

Thanks so much diafel. I'd about come to the same conclusion, but I thought it worth it to check with people who know infinitely more about the industry than me. I appreciate your tact, good sir.

You're more than welcome. I hope you intend to spend a little more time around here. We can definitely use some new blood. (Oh and I fixed that gender mistake for you! )
Cheers!

That dude from SoundChoice said we should expect to see Chartbuster and Stellar Records to jump on the lawsuit bandwagon in the near future, but i've not heard of any letters of intent or lawsuits from either of those companies as of yet.

With only 3,000 songs in your catalog, I wouldn't be concerned with it. From everything i've read, it seems the KJ's being targeted are the guys with really large catalogs.. since the larger the catalog, the more likely you've got bootleg songs.

I can understand not wanting to put up with the hassle in the event you were asked to prove your legitimacy, I have a very strong suspicion you have very little chance of that happening with only 3,000 songs.