Karaoke Forums

Let's say you know of people that started up a new karaoke company, not with 100000 songs, but with 25000. The 2 people that started up the company came from other companies.

Did they steal the music from the prior employers?
Did they buy the music CDGS from their prior employers (who are still running some shows)?

Hmmm, they stole some of the shows from their prior employers, have an 80% sound choice library including the Eagles disc but not the SC 80s disc with Eddie Money - Take Me Home Tonight (according to their books). They do have the latest sound choice powerpicks 3500 - 3503. They also run 2 shows on some nights. Would I get these shows if they went under, maybe, maybe not? I can't confirm one way or another that they are poop food, just my suspicions based on songs selection, age of the 'owners' and the size and selection in the song book.

J

You're suspicious of 25,000 songs?
Or did you mean 250,000 songs?

I'm suspicious of brand new KJ company with 2 rigs with 25K songs in month 1 of operation. Especially when they include obviously short supplied Sound Choice tracks. Like I say, they may have bought these from a prior company. Not all pirates have 100K hard drives, some are just multi riggers.

I think it deserves further investigation but...... whose job is that and do I want to be the 'snitch'?

Would you? Would anyone?

- J

If someone we know who has been to our shows for some time then shows up as a competiting KJ company with over 10,000 songs overnight on a computer with no discs operating, we get suspicious.

Also if a known KJ who has been running with discs for years & then shows up with a substantial amount more songs on a computer flags them as well. However, scrutiny on the established KJ has many more factors. If all of a sudden they appropriate songs that have been OOP or appear on obscure labels that are extremly rare that went out of business years ago, and these titles are only on their new HD, then they are suspect.

Of course any multi-rigged KJ company running with the same books is a good candidate for investigation.

We have a list of songs that are unique to certain labels. Just by looking at the books, we can determin what labels are present in their library. Be advised that we are not just looking for SC. There are unique titles to CB, PHM, Priddis, & Pocket Songs. (We also look for Zoom & SunFly even though they are not part of The Poop. However, label members of The Poop, such as SC, do advise the British Zoom & SunFly labels.)

Also there are the notorious OOP titles on obscure labels, not just SC8125 Eagles, that are unique as well & extremly hard to find currently anywhere. If we find that there are a substancial amount of "rare" OOP labels, we become much more confident of our suspicions unless they are an established KJ who has been around for years who may possibly have these titles.

If we establish much of the above, we will report to The Poop. At that point it is up to the labels themselves to hire Licensed Private Investigators to verify anything we report as suspicious.

Remember, as far as what SC has told us, even though they will enter into a "covenant not to sue" for 1:1 media-shift/back-up, as long as they can "audit" a KJ's HD and/or Burned CDG's, any evidence of their Sound Choice Trademark that appears copied onto any other media, and does not appear on an "Original Sound Choice Product" is open for scrutiny, investigation, and possible litigation by SC. Basically it is our understanding that if we don't let SC audit our libraries, they may sue us for copying their trademark onto our computer hard drives. It goes the same for the company I work for as well as any other. So if we observe SC content that is being presented by a KJ at their show, without any "Original Sound Choice CDG Product" being used, we will report that KJ. Again, it will be up to SC to send in their own investigative team to verify our observations. With the recent mishap in Knoxville, TN at Macleod's Irish Pub, we have voiced our concerns to SC & want to make sure that a mistake like Macleod's is not made in our area. We try to make sure we are confident in our suspicions before presenting any report to The Poop.

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We are also aware of all the commercially produced "CAVS Super CDG's" & their song listings. We can establish pretty well if these SCDG's have been transfered & are in use. Since a media-shift of these SCDG's can be done quite quickly, our suspicions will fade on a KJ & we will not flag them for reporting if we feel that the SCDG's are being ripped. We had run across a KJ utilizing a computer with the Chartbuster Essential 450 1-6, Nutech 1-3, MagicTrack (SGB), Panorama THM 1-4, & Millennium (DK) 1-2 Super CDG's, which has combined, over 11,000 songs total. There were no SC, PHM, titles present at their show. We felt that this KJ was legit & wish them the best.

Basically if someone "new" shows up with over 10,000 songs on computer it will perk our ears up. However one can put over 10,000 songs together with CAVS Super CDG's, as explained above, quite quickly other than ripping several hundred discs by SC, PHM, etc.... overnight. If thousands of SC titles appear, it is unlikely the "new" KJ has put this together unless they bought the entire "disc" library from someone who had already ripped the discs to computer. Recently a SC8101 - SC8499 Series of discs, with some discs missing, sold on ebaY for over $4,000.00 - That is still over $11.00 a disc & a substancial investment. I would think anyone who sold a legit HD/CDG Ripped Rig would ask for thousands of dollars, not hundreds, so one would have to consider if suspected pirate KJ has the buying power to start their own legit KJ business.

You can view those ended SC ebaY auctions below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0358152626

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0358157709

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0358163872

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0358168145

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What we see at a suspicious karaoke show is really not substancial evidence. In a way it is like reporting a suspicious drunk driver. Perhaps you see someone swerving down the highway, you call 911 & report a driver appearing to be driving drunk. You explain in detail what you are observing as the vehicle is swerving down the highway. The Police are dispatched & pull over the car only to find that the driver was sober but was having a heart attack which was causing the swerving. The driver was not breaking the law but to an outsider it appeared that they were since a majority of swerving vehicles usually is caused by drunk driving, not heart attacks. It is up to the karaoke label to pursue the evidence collecting if they choose to follow up on ones report, just like the Police pulling over the swerving car.

I know a bunch of folks on karaokescene are going to trash my comments here, but at this point I don't care.

Peace...

If I see ( and unfortunately I see plenty) hosts with suspicious numbers of tracks on PC, I truly want to report them- and will- as soon as a duly authorized law enforcement agency is formed to whom I can do so. It would clear out a majority of my competition.

Poop, on the other hand....nope, don't feel comfortable dealing with vigilante pawns....

_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

I wish everyone would get straight on the differences between civil cases and criminal cases.
For example, you can't reasonably compare reporting a suspicious KJ to reporting a swerving driver. It's just not the same thing.
And there is no dedicated law enforcement agency tracking down run-of-the-mill karaoke pirates (exception: the FBI and other agencies will pursue organized or mass-production copyright and trademark infringements). Even though karaoke pirates may be thieves, their offenses are best pursued through civil litigation brought by the entity that owns the copyright or trademark.

Personally, I am uninterested in dealing with the organization in question. I simply don't know this organization or its motives. If I was to report a suspicious KJ, my information would go directly to the manufacturer.

In answer to your (InsaneKJ) constant retorts of "What are you doing to help stop Piracy" comments everytime someone Poo-Poo's POOP... See above quote.


This is EXACTLY what many of us have done over the years... long before POOP was formed.

This is a difficult situation. On the one hand no one wants to be a rat. On the other these people are stealing thousands of dollars worth of music and causing a lot of trouble. If someone was breaking into someone's house and taking things you wouldn't think twice about calling the police and wouldn't feel bad about being a "rat." But who do you call in this case that you can trust? Is calling Sound Choice much different from alerting THE organization?

Too bad karaoke seems to be such an obscure legal mess with no official recognition of what is allowed or not allowed. I am betting several "pirates" would be surprised to find that 1. They are doing anything illegal and/or 2. That anyone cares or enforces it.

To clarify, we currently report directly to SC since they are compiling litigation. We speak to the principles at SC weekly regarding our current investigations. These reports are sent to the POOP as well to keep the other manufacturers in the loop.

We know of other KJ companies throughout the USA doing the same as us....

Oh--to answer the question directly--I have yet to report a specific company but my boyfriend emailed Sound Choice several years ago about the filie sharing site that these companies were using for illegal downloads. It is still up.

Recently my boyfriend asked Sound Choice if they were ever coming to our area and was told that they had already been here and were in the process of lining up a lawyer to start the suits. It will be interesting to see who they got and who they didn't.

Insane KJ, despite the resentment attitude that sometimes creeps in, I find many of your posts to be quite informative and intersting. Are you 90 years old?

I appreciate that leopard lizard. I'm not quite 90 yet!

But I'm no kid either!

Why do you care?

It doesn't bother me. I'm locked into my bars if someone tried to mess / lowball me there would hell to pay.

It's the nature of the world with the internet everyone feels that music is free. Believe me Miley Cyrus and Lady Gaga wont be in a soup kitchen line anytime soon.

When I started karaoke, disc were the only option. Now that I use pc and I have a big base library sure I could just download the new disc, but honestly I need the write off, there isn't much new karaoke. I can afford the $50 / $60 a month to get them in my mailbox every month.

My question is "how do you know that the kj got their songs (OVERNIGHT). I see this going in the wrong direction, because (at first), it was karaoke hosts with 100,000 song libraries, NOW it's karaoke hosts with 10,000 song libraries, that are UNDER SUSPICION. I happen to be a "NEW" karaoke host in my area, I currently have about 10,000 songs in MY library. I DIDN'T get them OVER NIGHT. I've been purchasing, building, and PERFECTING my show AT HOME for most of the last year, although I did have a gig for 3 months. SO, I guess (to the OUTSIDE WORLD), I started up OVERNIGHT with a 10,000 song library. What's the next criteria for being CONSIDERED a PIRATE. Oh, he also has a CAVS player. I DO have a CAVS player, to play customers discs!!! I guess the ONLY way someone WON'T be under suspicion, is if they're DISC BASED. BUT, then again, they COULD have PIRATED DISCS. IF you're looking at ANYONE close enough, I'm SURE you could find a reason to SUSPECT them. I would just like to ask 1 question, WHERE DOES IT END.

Srnitynow

I have to agree with srnitynow. I too haven't been at this long and have acquired over 10,000 songs in a short time by buying up anything I see on EBAY that is a good deal, and that I don't already have, in fact I just received 7 discs of CB that I only paid $15.00 for and waiting for 5 more that only cost me $8.00.

I don't currently have any regular gigs but I'm still active in karaoke, so if I happen to land one and my first night I have over 10,000 songs does that make me a pirate?, Don't think so and I have all the discs to prove it.

Just because someone shows up new with even 20,000 songs doesn't make them a pirate, what if they just moved into the area or bought out someone's equipment and discs.

Let the professionals do their job.

_________________
I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

As a British guy watching all this litigation talk from afar..( our laws are different...Soundchoice or any other group ie KIAA, POOP etc couldnt have any power here)...there does seem to be a lot of sabre-rattling and rabble rousing going on on this website from one or two individuals who should know better. What's the next move going to be.........a Lynching Party ??

This is rural America. We smile and wave at strangers. When somebody is stranded or broke down on the road we stop and assist no charge. A stranded family is not turned away. We do not need constant protection, help in an emergency, legal fees when we separate or get divorced, ETC and we dont need big brother to wipe our arse. We give an honest days work for an honest days pay. We dont lock our homes most of the time. When kids are in the street we watch and babysit for neighbors.

WE do not spy on our neighbors and report them to the gestapo, rather we help them and give them a ride when they have had too much to drink.We support and patronize the poor working people who are trying to feed their family.. We do not need federal help in running drug dealers out of our hood or help with gangbangers. We are fully armed and know how to reload any calibre known to man which is why we dont have terrorists in our country.

The majority is not sue happy and most know what orginizations are run by the mafia (outdated term) and we do not support corps or companys that do not support or care for their customers. Due to the present economy we have to trim the budget more than the the corps and we will not take the the blame because they have to sell their million dollar flippin homes. I was not responsible for the decline in Sound Choice or any other corp hard dealings and I will not shoulder or take any blame for it. I paid them honest hard good money..

I am pleased to announce we are out of Fort Collins Colorado now and still running the best DJ/Dance Karaoke shows around. Any here is welcome to vacation or pass through and you will not be strangers here very long. You might want to be prepared to slow down and smell the roses.

In answer to the question HELL NO and if you liberal whiners have a problem with that you can put it where the sun doesnt shine...

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Agree....

"Liberal whiners", eh?

Hi Pot...Meet Kettle!

It took Ollie five paragraphs and a big blanket insult to answer the OP's question with "HELL NO."

I think what Ollie meant to say was he doesn't report pirates, he shoots them.