Karaoke Forums

I am wondering what the settlement is.

Is it $1 per song, and removal of the illegal song from one's song book.

(most likely)

Or is it $1 per song, and you get to keep on using the pirated copy.

(I doubt it).

If it is the first option, it is a pretty hard penalty, as most likely the vast majority of the songs getting the pentalty probably never have been sung.


If all an illegal KJ had to do was say "aw shucks" and turn over the pirated hard drive to be ereased, it would be no real penalty at all.

I bet that once you are "caught" it is fine and loss of the songs.

I seriously doubt they would let you go through your song book and decide which songs you want to keep and pay for.

the people they are goin after have ( supposedly) been caught in the act, so to speak.

Will have to wait and see.

OK, I may have confused the terms he used, but the question I put out there is still one of legitimacy. If you had purchased one of the CAVs units (that I described in my previous post) how do you prove you are not one of those people that SC (or one of the other Manufacturers in the future) might be going after. I know that SC wouldn't be going after those people, because they wouldn't/shouldn't have any SC music loaded on them. But, that still leaves Chartbuster (who I believe InsaneKJ mentioned was also beginning to go after the pirates as SC is actively doing). Aside from producing a store receipt, I don't recall the CAVs units coming with an accompanying/corresponding set of discs to match what was loaded in the unit. Does anyone else? How would that separate those people from the pirates?

BTW... This has nothing to do with who they are going after now, but I don't have any of my receipts for all of the discs I purchased over the past 12 years (not that I'm concerned about that).

Okay. Devil's advocate time. Let's say someone broke into a karaoke retail store and stole all of their Sound Choice discs, as well as many other brands of karaoke music. The same person then loads up a hard drive with all of the stolen songs and goes into the KJ business. Sound Choice files a law suit against this person but tihs person has an original disc for all of the songs on his hard drive. He is as much of a thief as the guy who bought a loaded hard drive from e-bay but he will most likely get off scott free. Doesn't seem completely fair.

Actually, manufacturers own the copyright to THEIR ARRANGEMENT of their music. For example, the music of the late classical composers have long ago fallen into the public domain, however recordings and arrangements produced by the London Symphany or the Boston Pops or whoever are copyrighted.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Well maybe unless the cops manage to catch him and bust him for breaking and entering, grand larceny, etc. That ought to be worth some hard time.

How is this playing devil's advocate? The topic we're talking about here is illegal downloaded copies of Sound Choice discs. Those stolen discs, while illegally obtained, are still legal discs. Sound Choice was still paid(by the karaoke store). As far as sound choice and the thieving KJ is concerned, there's nothing between them. The Karaoke store is the one who would bring the KJ to court.

The issue is the direct loss of profit to Sound Choice because people are downloading copies, instead of purchasing them from middlemen such as Karaoke stores.

EDIT:
And of course he's just as much of a thief as the pirate, but he's stealing from a different person via a different method, this is like comparing a homicide to grand theft auto, and saying that one technique designed to catch one won't catch the other - and it's not fair because that's so.

My guess is the manufacturers would love to go download if they can get the legalities sorted. Right now Chartbuster is putting the buyer's user name on the logo screen of each song on their Custom discs and I'm betting they will do that on their downloads. They won't be able to do that on their sets, etc. so bet they would prefer to sell in a way that let's them register the buyer's name.

Having reviewed the original thread on the forum from which the SC post was taken I am left with the following thoughts. If I were SC and serious about the problem I would:

1. Go after every CAVS dealer before worrying about much of anything else. If SC is doing that, as they say, why are their lacky's only making posts to this forum alerting us of suits here and there against bars and kj's? There have been no posts of newspaper articles regarding suits against CAVS dealers and hard drive sellers.

2. Go on line and find as many multi-riggers as I could. Using websites, I have be able to find multiriggers all over the country. I "know" they are multi-riggers when they list 2-3 shows on the same night

3. Follow every MAJOR lead provided by KJ's. We often hear that these tips are being ignored

Only after pursuing steps 1-3, would I go after any "smaller" kj's who advertise 30 thousand or more tracks!

And I believe that this approach would produce greater/better results because it would:

1. More rapidly identify and penalize the biggest offenders. If that effort is successful it would FINANCE the entire campaign for SC as compared to their current approach of going after "Joe, Schmos"!

2. Help the legitimate KJ companies by ridding the industry of pirates more quickly and comprehensively

3. Create a quicker and more potent word of mouth campaign among local KJ's and over forums of the developing consequences of pirating SC material

And if I am wrong, where am I going wrong?

BTW, I don't at all get the following statement included in the SC posting above, particularly the one about representing other manufacturers:

I completely agree with Sound Choice's position. I am in the IT business and you won't believe the number of pirated copies of Microsoft products out there (spare me the monopoly excuse).

As a fan and a former KJ I feel it is my duty to help report and put these cheats out of business. Many of my friends and associates in the business have lost shows to these azzholes. I recently had an argument with a bar owner where I have been singing at for several years. My buddy TAZ had been running 3 shows a night and the bar was packed and he had 20-40 person rotations. The bar owner brought in a rigger and saved $50 a night. I and most of the former patrons are following TAZ to his other gigs at bars in proximity to this establishment, never to set foot in that other bar again.

This issue has real impact and has cost my friend up to $3,000 a month in revenue. He has since recovered a lot of that with new shows but he has a wife and newborn. I bet the people that rail against this as not fair to the riggers, likely argue against cheap Chinese steel imports that destroyed the US steel industry - what is the different, you can't copy steel so that is different? Illegal or unfair competition is just that - no matter the medium or product.

Well there is my rant on this issue...

My only quesiton is there any effort in Canada to attempt the same course of legal action. I realize the copywrite laws are different here and our government is trying to tighten them up.

Does anyone know the answer?

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Terryoke
Krazy Kanuck Karaokeist

Karaoke is the only social disease that you can get in public and not get arrested.

I believe the major companies already have a plan and they are instituting it.


For some reason, Sound Choice agreed to take the hit on the lawsuits while the others go on their merry way upgrading their websites and instituting downloads. But the others did authorize Sound Choice to sue/authorize libraries on their behalf. I would think that if Chartbuster was going to institute lawsuits than they would have filed the one in their own backyard in Tenn. instead of SC doing it. Wonder if they all contribute to a legal kitty.

I think their plan is to create a situation where everyone will have to register their libraries and then register future purchases to each user. Chartbuster is already putting the buyer's name on the logo screen of each custom song. Sound Choice has mentioned keeping a database of song buyers so that they won't end up going after legit users.

I believe the purpose of the lawsuits, besides attempting to recoup some losses, is to bring as many libraries as possible into compliance/registration while creating publicity to encourage others to become "authorized." It doesn't seem like a pirate would actually be able to come up with the money to bring themselves into compliance, even at the reduced rate, so a lot of them will be history or at least no longer have their economic advantage over us.

It seems there is some marketing pressure being put into effect for KJs to volunteer to become registered. The organization members that have registered their libraries are advertising they have the only "authorized" library which doesn't make them any more legal but in the eyes of the public they don't know the difference. (at this point they don't care but that may change, at least after a few venue owners get hit.)

According to ads by the organization, there ARE stings going on trying to catch the hard drive sellers/buyers.

That is my take on it, anyway, based on what has been said by the org and what I see happening when I buy new songs. Others may have a different view but I think that we are just seeing the beginning of a different way of the manus doing business.

I think piracy is the least of their worries.

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

The KJ whow stole the CDGS just commited a different crime...thats all
One comitted THEFT of the CDGS and the other comitts copyright type theft ...

I know about the KIA group what the pirates need is an organization that will KEEP orginal copies of all SOUND CHOICE CDGS . Then everytime one of the member pirattes gets in trouble ..they could send the CDGS to them in defense of their case.

Hey Jam, we could charge them an exorbitant amount for "temporary possession" status.

I help with that, I make "good" copies complete with stick on labels (copied from the originals) and put them in new jewel cases bought at the local office supply store. Then I simply tell them that I got them from my uncles best friends little sister whose great aunt on her boyfriends daddys side bought from this guy who made him a "great" deal since he was getting out of the karaoke business due to the fact that wife was leaving him for her step-brother that knew a man that could hook them up with a guy that could get them Ralph Lauren shirts brand new to sell at the flea market. He was told the shirts are the real deal cause they have Ralph Lauren labels in the collar and he can sell the way cheaper than the retail stores can.

My head hurts now!

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No venue to big or too small. From your den to the local club or event, we have the music most requested. Great sounding system!

SO DOES MINE!

But what about the Dog that died????

I don't understand the rant? Who on this forum has suggested that there isn't a problem with piracy. We ARE ALL being effected by it. And many of us are facing:

---- Price cutters
---- Multi-riggers who build credibility with owners for their "name (brand?)" because of all the shows they run!
---- Multi-riggers who build followings because of all of the shows/choices they offer around the area
---- Huge libraries that SOME find appealing

I do, however, take exception to SC tactics and quickness to insult anyone who rubs them the wrong way! Which they did on their forum and are now doing on other forums!

If I am the CEO of SC; I would just stop producing new cdgs. I can just start suing every KJ for trademark infringement and I can make more money doing just that.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott