Karaoke Forums

I was quite impressed by the vast overall improvement displayed in your recent sub in the showcase. I'm wondering (others who have more firsthand singing experience would be better judges of this) if this would be a good time for you to have a few singing lessons with a vocal coach, reason being, THAT might be the best way to develop technique and theory correctly, and help you develop into your next level "a singer", as opposed to beginner trying to teach yourself..  My own gut feeling is that rather than having to worry about breaking habits and relearning (later on down the road),  this is a stage you may wish to initially learn certain things correctly initually regarding singing theory.. These things might be your singing posture,  how to project your voice for fullness which might project you out've the headvoice area..   But I'm not sure because these are the areas it's tougher to determine having never met or seen a singer while they sing..

I just feel that a few lessons with somebody that teaches contemporary music singing theory might take you a LONG way about now. because you've come a long way by yourself, but I suspect a few things you'd need some help with now, perhaps areas that are more technical areas of this craft.. aspects not so obvious in-other-words... Not everything is easily self taught, I know I would need some coaching at some point in anything that is as difficult as singing, but you might be able to continue and make significant progress all alone,  I don't know.. I just think this is somewhat of a turning point for you, you're ready to develop some technique *I believe*, and I don't know how easy it is to self-teach vocal technique... I just don't. Others here might know...

I know in my particular case, learning technique might be best done with a coach because when *I* get to a phase of around where you currently are with singing, I'm about to develop certain theoretical traits, BUT, I also develop more expectations of myself, OR, I become less forgiving of myself compared to when I was a beginner. .. Instruction might exponentially help you now because your ear and feel is good.. I think some polishing and learning technique from a more advanced singer in real would be most beneficial around NOW for you... It might help lift you out've the unsure learning phase of singing.

I'm seriously hoping enough that know you here, can offer you helpful technique tips too.. Some that are experienced and have studied singing !  Because most of us know YOU are truly a person who isn't bothered by constructive critique and advice to help you learn.. I hope others here can help you grow as a singer.. IOW I'm hoping people aren't afraid to give you what you want which is HELP to become the best singer you can become without them fearing you will be upset by their helpful intent. YOU WILL NOT be upset by honest Critique,  I know this as fact.. You can take it..  Thing is, I'm not a singer, I am very limited.. There's ALOT of top notch talent singing in this site however, I hope those that have a lot of singing experience reach out, and extend themselves to you.. I know you DO wish to grow as a singer, and the beauty of such an interactive site is that there ARE many here that can assist you with certain things here and there... assuming you ask specific questions too, and let them know what direction you are trying to go with certain songs,  what it is you are attempting to achieve in style, if you notice you are having a tough time with certain parts of a song, ask for advice and help, some help you can get from an interactive site such as this, of course you would need to ask specific questions to those that currently study singing, or sing styles you are trying to learn.   Also, it's a good thing for the listener to know if you are trying to replicate some other singers quality, or if you wish to develop and maintain your own style..  Etc.   If you ask for specifics, I think others here can give them to you

                                                          Great Job, and keep up the good work..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven and others,

Singing posture,
My problem is that I prefer to sit when I sing; most of the time, even in the karaoke bar. I know full well that it does affect the singing. I can feel the different when I stand to sing esp those songs that have a few high notes.

Vocal projection
In 'live' karaoke singing I am very loud and can work the mic to get the correct level. I can't do that with my current recording set up at home. And on the top of that I use a headphone mic to record for this site.

Pitch
This is the area that I have been working very hard on. I think I have improve. I know when I hit the note flat. There are time when I sing and was too conscious on getting the right pitch for all the notes that it just isn't fun. But I am getting better.

Tempo
I still cannot count. I just have to listen to the original many times to get there. the sweep lyric help and when those color changes goes wrong I will have some problem.

Vocal quality
There are few songs on the right key, that when I sing them, I do not have that raspiness. Most songs that I sing will make my voice 'break'. I can't explain why. Those who have hear my speaking voice will note that I speak with a clean voice (plus the accent).

Accent
I can live with that

Vocal Coach.
There just isn't any around where I live.


Any one want to joint in are wellcome.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Jian,  this isn't something done with a microphone or electronic devices.  This is a physical technique we anatomically change/ do. It's method of singing. When I'm attempting to form vocal quality I use ONLY the following simple electronic devices.. A tape recorder.. No microphone.  THAT comes later.  

I don't want electronics to be what shapes my vocal quality.  *I* want to do that myself.  THIS is difficult too,  because it often involves us doing something with technique we might not be aware of, AND we also do not hear our own voice accurately. Remember, the difference between "head" and "chest" voices, and vocal projection IS NOT the microphone, or PA volume... It's how you are singing.  You can of course synthesize a different quality, but I doubt that is what you want.

Since I'm not personally somebody that sings or knows singing theory,  I'd hope a person more qualified who *IS* a veteran or trained vocalist chimes in here... I'm out've my league trying to help as just a musician who personally has no recent theory/training regarding singing, what I have learned is likely VERY old-school too,. I don't know.. Although my intent is well meant. I just lack knowledge in singing itself. I just accompany singers. I wish I knew how to apply what I state myself.  BUT, unlike ALL outboard musical instruments our voice is VERY different.  I can't hear my voice as others may..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think I misunderstood what vocal projection is. My understanding of it was that it is the ability to sing loud; as in projecting it (the voice) as far away as is possible without the use of any sound reinforcement equipment.
In that sense I am by nature a fairly loud singer. If the person singing before me has an average level voice and the mic is set for him/her and when its my turn I will need to move the mic double far from my normal mic to lips distance.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Jian,  What I meant was the technique or methodology used in singing to achieve different intonation, or sounds as well, how to shape the mouth, what part of the body to project from to hit certain areas of a song, and similarly how to resonate and efficiently push or bellow ones voice from the stomach area, even how to incorporate breathing technique into phrasing, how to integrate all of the above too, posture to support this, etc..  If you listen to the operatic tenor for instance, he's putting his WHOLE body into singing and projecting many of his notes,  the sinus cavities and all bones in his head resonate with vibration at certain times, it's a brutal workout to achieve such volume and bellowing sound, this isn't done from just the upper chest area on up... EVERY part of his structure supports this rigorous workout.  This is an athletic activity, and for this reason many that love Pavoratti fear by his allowing himself to get out've shape,  he's going to drop on stage... The process to achieve certain sonic tones with the voice, and use ones voice to achieve a timbre of choice is involved, and VERY tough..  It's technique that as a person (myself) who's asthmatic and has chronic clogged sinuses would take tremendous studying and work.. I would be able to sing much better assuming I studied with a person who taught me how to breath correctly, how to stand, and use my voice and body to project fuller tone... BUT,  it's hard, VERY hard because in my case I'm tense all the time, and I'm a shallow breather..  I'm usually quite constricted and for this reason Sax, flute and brasswind instruments were always tougher than string instruments for me..  It's like learning anything initially, violin for instance,  Chin tight on chinrest, elbow under, wrist position, I HATED it... Even guitar initially, it felt weird to position my hand and wrist that way... When I taught myself trumpet years back I assumed because I was hitting certain registers I was doing things correctly,  a horn instructor told me my embouchure was TOTALLY wrong... I didn't understand why..until he demonstrated how my lips were positioned in a lazy manner which although comfortable now, would end up screwing up other things, and not enable me to hit higher notes on the horn..  Even in piano,  those that really can play will watch me, and laugh at my now lax wrist and finger positioning because there ARE correct ways, and incorrect ways to do certain things, sometimes we can do fine self-taught,  other times we need instruction to learn that something that never ocurred to us, is right at our fingertips with practice. and I think in most cases MANY things we once did, and knew how to do get forgotten, and we slack... ANY instrument now I wished to polish up would take A LOT of refresher studying, remembering, and brushup lessons,  not because I'm bad on these instruments, but because I've forgotten a lot being out've practice that takes it's toll on my tone, technique, and in some cases results in injury over time.

While I might end up even more arthritic and with Carpal tunnel,  you singers risk hurting your throat too. Music injury isn't uncommon.. Projecting incorrectly is straining oneself

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I don't think that was what I do when I sing. Was my voice from the stomach? I don't know, but what I know is that I get bad pain in my abdominal muscle when I go all out singing the night.



This is something I understand. Phrasing is not a problem when I sing In Malay but In English yes it become a major struggle. Breathing is still a big problem to me.  I have to sometime planned in advance where to take in air, either wise I just run out of air half way. Many times I just get carried away and just get thing all wrong.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I wish Jazzybags was still around here Jian. she taught singing.  I'm getting into singing theory and I'm not qualified to expound on this because it's an area I haven't read about or discussed in detail with anybody in years. I'm afraid at this point of getting over my head into an area too theoretical involving an instrument I can't play.. "my voice".. .  I wish a singer who's studying, or has studied would take the baton from me at this point, and resume this conversation with you because I've gotten as far into singing theory as I can get without guessing about things and I don't wish to do this... SO Jazzy, Nathan, or anybody who's studied vocal music please help Jian with this..  I'm at a dead end here..  


Sorry Jian,  Like I've always said,  I need to know what I don't know, and I'm getting too deep into singing theory. I need the help of somebody who studies here because I'm at a deadend in terms of what I know... as to whether your stomach should feel tight after a night of singing or not,  I don't know.. "bad pain" to me means you are straining something, but I honestly don't know what it feels like to sing right or wrong, or if singing has anything to do with it..  Breathing and phrasing has ALWAYS been hell for me too... I don't calculate and recite lyrics in accordance to song timing and where I'd need to inhale, and how I should exhale as I sing lyrics to punctuate my phrases... We need an educated singer in here...I'm only a wannabe singer with limited knowledge on voice training and projecting concepts..

I've called for help,  and hopefully a singer with current knowledge regarding theory will resume this chat with you and we both will learn a few things

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Ok go to sleep Kappy, we start again when you wake up.  LMAO

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Hopefully Morgan will enter soon..  She sings, and has done theatrical stuff and DJ'ing.. Has studied voice training I assume..  Otherwise I'll google "how to sing", and pretend I'm skilled and stuff in the morning..  Night Jian !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

ok here I is...what was the question again?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

The question is I don't understand what Prof. Kaplan is talking about in his long thesis above. Basically that is.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I dont think I will be much help Jian. There is nothing really impressive about my singing voice. In fact the training I have had in broadcasting probably has been bad for singing. because if one is to get 85 words into 30 secs then one needs to grab short breaths on the run...not what is needed in singing.

I can project my voice speaking, can i explain how I do it...no. All I know is when I want to get attention I drop my voice and project, rather than raise my voice.

it kinda resonates and vibrates in my diaphram

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

No no,  I didn't mean projection meant dropping your voice down there, but sounds as though your *project*  <AHEM> might get some attention even here in the states  :shock: ..  Is this resonation stuff common in NZ ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

bite me baby  LMAO
mawnin folks

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Here's my thoughts on proper breathing, support, resonance, tone placement and all those things that MUST work together to maximize your sound.  I don't think there's any substitute for getting a vocal teacher...you need someone who is able to eyeball and listen to exactly what you're doing to gain that immediate feedback and correction.  It takes awhile to get all those things working together properly and I don't think books are at all helpful, imo.

 

Well Elisha could certainly dish up alot more than I as far as the technical side of things, I have had some training, but I only wanted to learn some safer singing techniques to avoid injuries, those being relaxation and not singing from your throat (this was causing injuries for me), and also breathing into your lower lungs and stomach as opposed to your upper chest (which is instinctive for most beginning singers). To experiment, breathe air into your upper chest only and see how much air you can blow out, then breathe into your lower chest (around the sternum) which should also make your stomach expand, now notice the difference in how much air you have available, it's amazing, but you also need to learn how to control this flow of air, and that's something I really don't know how to put into words......anyway, different types of music require different techniques, I don't think you really need a huge amount of training to be a performer in the popular music genre, in fact I am of the opinion that too much training could detract from one's personal style. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to go through a series of vocal warm-ups before you perform live and especially before you record, go through some scales, Jimmy Cracked Corn, or whatever, this will not only help you to avoid injuries, but will also give you better control over just about every aspect of your singing...Like I said, i'm no wiz or anything, this is just what (usually) works for me...

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Nathan,

That breathing ex. thing is more understandable. I will try that stomach vs chest thing. I think I understand what you are getting me at. thanks a much.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Its true  that in any form of artistic training a teacher is needed; my bigest problem is there isn't one around. No amount of read and long distence coaching can replace the need of a personal vox coach. I know...

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Thank you Red and Nathan for helping out here.


Also, diction, and technique for singing isn't really similar to talking voice training that a radio anouncer might study, or what a public speaker would study.  Reason being, we use a different part of the brain when we sing vs talk... Ever notice how certain people with speech issues such as stuttering, and lisps etc,  Aren't subject to these problems when they sing ?  Not certain if different hemispheres of the brain go into singing vs talking.. CCindy who has training in speech pathology knows about these things..  A person suffering from a serious stuttering problem isn't affected when they sing though..  I always found that interesting. Different brain areas.  So singing is it's own form expression unlike talking in many ways.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

how ya doing kappy

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."